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Author Topic:   How can we regulate guns ... ?
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 135 of 955 (686661)
01-02-2013 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taq
01-02-2013 5:52 PM


Re: My Ideas for Regulation
taq writes:
in case we need to topple some fantasized tyrranical US government.
So you think tyrannical government is a fantasy that is never likely to take shape?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 5:52 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 6:28 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 137 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2013 6:29 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 138 of 955 (686664)
01-02-2013 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Taq
01-02-2013 6:28 PM


Re: My Ideas for Regulation
FEY writes:
So you think tyrannical government is a fantasy that is never likely to take shape?
taq writes:
In the US, it is highly unlikely.
Rahvin doesn't seem to agree with you.
rahvin writes:
I rather think that in many ways it already has and guns didn't stop it.
The PATRIOT Act, as just one major example, trashes the Constitution...and guns didn't stop it or reverse it. Indeed, nothing has been done to undo it, with or without guns. You can't go much further than National Security letters that allow a person's rights to be simply ignored with no court oversight and a legal penalty for even seeking recourse or informing the target. And that's just for starters.
I'm with Rahvin here. We already have a tyrannical government albeit not as bad as most around the world.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 6:28 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 6:36 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 140 of 955 (686666)
01-02-2013 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Taq
01-02-2013 6:36 PM


Re: My Ideas for Regulation
Did everyone in russia favor the revolution by your reading of history?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 6:36 PM Taq has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 143 of 955 (686669)
01-02-2013 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Rahvin
01-02-2013 6:42 PM


Re: My Ideas for Regulation
rahvin writes:
And the citizens with guns are unwilling and unable to prevent it,
That is right, but the citizens can make life a living hell for the government by first non violent means like a nationwide stop work or stop your car in the middle of the highway type methods. The guns come in handy when the government INEVITABLY steps in with heavy handed methods to stop it.
Remember tianammen square? When the government stepped in to squash the peaceful revolt, the people were smashed. Think of what the result would have been had the people been armed. The government would have its hands full trying to tamp it all down if the MAJORITY of its citizens were armed.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2013 6:42 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2013 6:55 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 145 by hooah212002, posted 01-02-2013 6:56 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 146 of 955 (686672)
01-02-2013 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by hooah212002
01-02-2013 6:56 PM


Re: My Ideas for Regulation
Can the government round up the totality of its citizens? Do you really think everyone in the armed forces and the police are going to take up arms against their own citizens? Some probably will but not all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by hooah212002, posted 01-02-2013 6:56 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by hooah212002, posted 01-02-2013 7:14 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 149 of 955 (686675)
01-02-2013 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Rahvin
01-02-2013 6:55 PM


Re: My Ideas for Regulation
You are talking about rather small scale protests. I am talking about nationwide protest with not just a minority of citizens involved.
Even though the presence of citizens pointing guns would indeed invoke a massacre, the massacre would not go unnoticed by the rest of the citizenry who actually gave a damn. I would unless an even more pronounced nationwide protest and eventually a violent and bloody revolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2013 6:55 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2013 7:19 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 152 of 955 (686678)
01-02-2013 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by RAZD
01-02-2013 7:01 PM


Re: Regulation proposal -- Join the National Guard to use military grade arms
So I guess you are claiming that milititias and the armed forces are the only entitites the founders of the consitution had in mind when the subject of the right to bear arms was being considered?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by RAZD, posted 01-02-2013 7:01 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Rahvin, posted 01-02-2013 7:25 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 158 by RAZD, posted 01-02-2013 7:51 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 505 of 955 (687589)
01-13-2013 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 504 by AZPaul3
01-13-2013 8:12 PM


Re: the right to bear arms == 2 simple action guns ...
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;
Notice this part: when called into the actual Service of the United States;
If the militia in question is not called into the actual service of the United States, the President is not the commander in Chief of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2013 8:12 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 506 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2013 10:37 PM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 507 by NoNukes, posted 01-14-2013 12:18 AM foreveryoung has seen this message but not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 627 of 955 (687818)
01-16-2013 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by ramoss
01-16-2013 8:18 PM


Re: NY Vs Chicago
Statistics are not evidence of your point of view unless you can show how. Statistics can be misleading and a totally different understanding can result when the method of how the statistics were derived is uncovered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by ramoss, posted 01-16-2013 8:18 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by ramoss, posted 01-16-2013 11:56 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 629 of 955 (687825)
01-17-2013 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 628 by ramoss
01-16-2013 11:56 PM


Re: NY Vs Chicago
How do you know it is gun laws and their enforcement that has dropped crime since the 90's and not some other factor?

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 Message 628 by ramoss, posted 01-16-2013 11:56 PM ramoss has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
(1)
Message 748 of 955 (688080)
01-18-2013 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 731 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
01-18-2013 5:22 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
Well, that was unnecessary. Maybe I forgot to mention (but I swear I did) that the Gun Law if 1938 repealed the previous laws that were put in place by the Weimar Republic. Hitler could no longer utilize those laws. The only individuals guns were confiscated from were the Jewish people. You posted one video that I could actually check and links to books I have no intention of purchasing simply to verify your statements. I definitely did not slander you and I apologize if it came out that way. However, as far as the evidence I have seen, you seem to be wrong. When only one group is shouting something with no agreement from anywhere I become skeptical of the claim and will only trust evidence. I trusted the statements in my evidence more than yours. No offense intended.
Still I ask, where were those Non-Jewish Germans with guns when they saw their friends and neighbors taken away? Group think can be an extremely dangerous tool, especially when used how the Nazis used it.
Group think is exactly what is going on here in america with a tremendous percentage of the population who are led around like sheep by the likes of Candy Crowley, Anderson Cooper, Piers Morgan, Wolf Blitzer, David Gregory, Rachel Maddow.
Where were the Non-Jewish Germans with guns? Nowhere to be found. Why? They didn't give a rat's ass. Actually they did but not in the way you would expect. They bought into hitlers lies about the jews and were in full support of their extermination. It seems people were led around by the nose like sheep back then too.
The only individuals guns were confiscated from were the Jewish people.
This wasn't done by law was it? It was done by a tyrant. Executive orders anyone?
The key point is that GUNS WERE CONSFISCATED. It matters not whether it was by law or decree, the result was the same. Could the jews have prevented their extermination without their guns being confiscated? Probably not, since they were a minority and the rest of the country despised them.
It would not have gone done without much notice like it did in reality. The shootout that would have occurred when the military and the SS came to root the jews out of their homes, would have been noticed by everyone, and perhaps, the world would have known more clearly that there , indeed, was a genocide in progress.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 731 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 01-18-2013 5:22 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 749 by Theodoric, posted 01-18-2013 11:20 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 750 of 955 (688082)
01-18-2013 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 749 by Theodoric
01-18-2013 11:20 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
Uh, yes it was.
Guns were confiscated from the jews according to a law passed by the german parliament?
Which of the recent Executive Orders are tyrannical?
Which of your shoes are colored purple?
You really should learn facts before you spout off. Ever hear of the Warsaw Ghetto? The armed Jews didn't do much except die. The world leaders knew about the genocide. It just wasn't "expedient" to deal with it.
You should really learn facts about the movie "white men can't jump". Ever hear of Wesley Snipes? The world's men know about steroids. It just wasn't expedient to cut kill chicken by ringing their necks.
I bet you have no idea what point I am making do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 749 by Theodoric, posted 01-18-2013 11:20 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 751 by Theodoric, posted 01-18-2013 11:32 PM foreveryoung has replied
 Message 753 by AZPaul3, posted 01-18-2013 11:46 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 752 of 955 (688085)
01-18-2013 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 751 by Theodoric
01-18-2013 11:32 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
You don't care because you don't want to know you responded to things I never said and made points that were irrelevant.
I never said the executive orders were tyrannical. I was making the comparison that guns were taken away apart from any laws in both cases. I will have to look into whether or not the confiscation laws were passed by a parliament that was free from hitlers control or not.
The world did not know about the genocide occurring in germany; not poland. Thosewere two separate countries in case you didn't know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 751 by Theodoric, posted 01-18-2013 11:32 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 754 by Theodoric, posted 01-18-2013 11:52 PM foreveryoung has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
(1)
Message 755 of 955 (688090)
01-19-2013 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 754 by Theodoric
01-18-2013 11:52 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
Show me how the Executive orders are taking guns away?
Can you purchase any of the guns now mentioned in the executive orders? That is equivalent to taking away your guns in my book. More precisely, it is taking away your right to purchase a particular gun.
Yes they did. Where the camps were located has no bearing on what was known. They were all run by Nazi germany.
They knew about what was going on in poland and austria and other occupied countries. They did not know that jews were being forced out of their homes at gunpoint onto trains to be taken to the east to be exterminated in gas chambers. It was only made known to a few people and the top military leaders of the time make absolutely no mention of the gas chambers in any of their memoirs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 754 by Theodoric, posted 01-18-2013 11:52 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 757 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-19-2013 1:17 AM foreveryoung has not replied
 Message 766 by Theodoric, posted 01-19-2013 10:19 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 701 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 756 of 955 (688094)
01-19-2013 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 753 by AZPaul3
01-18-2013 11:46 PM


Re: How gun laws tyrannize people
My point was that theodoric was both not addressing my points directly and replying to things I never said. It was satire that was mocking how totally irrelevant his remarks were in light of what I had said.

This message is a reply to:
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