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Author Topic:   How can we regulate guns ... ?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 955 (686347)
12-31-2012 10:35 AM


The current thread, Gun Control Again, has -imho- reached it's inevitable end with people talking past each other and reiterating their positions. Nothing new, and it is probably time to close that thread.
I'd like to shift the focus to ways to regulate guns:
  1. so that legitimate users can fulfill their needs
    1. hunters
    2. collectors
    3. self defense proponents
    4. security people
    5. police
  2. so that a well regulated state militias can be maintained (per the constitution)
    1. National Guard
    2. constitutional militia organizations
    3. gun club militia organizations(1)
    4. general population
  3. so that non-legitimate use can be reduced from
    1. criminals
    2. irrational/delusional/unstable people
    3. people under the influence of drugs, alcohol, rage
For the sake of argument on this thread, it is taken as given that fewer unregulated guns in the hands of fewer untrained people will result in fewer deaths (accidental and intentional), so the purpose is to achieve that end.
Gun deaths, including mass murder rampages, will still occur even with very strict regulations.
But regulations do reduce the overall incidence of these deaths, and that is the goal.
So what are your proposals for gun regulation?
Enjoy.
(1) - "gun club militias" would be all those groups that do not fit the constitional definition of militia -- ie as detailed here:
http://congressionalconstitutioncaucus-garr.../...nstitution
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Article I Section 8 - The Congress shall have Power ...
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
Article II Section 2 - The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, ...
Amendment II - A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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Replies to this message:
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Message 2 of 955 (686349)
12-31-2012 1:05 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the How can we regulate guns ... ? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 955 (686352)
12-31-2012 2:04 PM


Regulation Proposal #1 owner licenses
Pass a federal regulation that all gun owners must be licensed by each state, with photo ID, fingerprints and a DNA sample, and documentation that they have been trained in proper gun use, with separate training document for every gun owned.
Records to be kept by the FBI and would searchable with their other data bases to track criminals.
Fees for the licenses to be sufficient to cover the costs of issuing and recording the licenses.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : fees
Edited by RAZD, : subt

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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 955 (686353)
12-31-2012 2:06 PM


Regulation Proposal #2 -- gun registration
Pass a federal regulation that all guns must be registered in every state, referenced to the owners gun license.
The FBI would be charged with maintaining the whole record, and checking them for multiple entries (DNA, fingerprints).
Fees for the registration to be sufficient to cover the costs of issuing and maintaining the registration records etc.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : fees
Edited by RAZD, : subt

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 955 (686354)
12-31-2012 2:11 PM


Regulation Proposal #3 -- federal registry
Keep a federal registry (FBI) of previously convicted criminal gun users plus irrational/delusional/unstable people -- with doctors required to submit names -- to use as part of the data base for license background checks by the states before gun licenses are issued.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : subt

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 6 of 955 (686355)
12-31-2012 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
12-31-2012 2:04 PM


Re: Regulation Proposal #1
How about not?
Before you start stacking rule upon regulation on honest gun owners, figure out why all the already-extensive rules and regulations that exist in places like Chicago, Washington DC, and New York City aren't working.
You know the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 12-31-2012 2:04 PM RAZD has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 955 (686356)
12-31-2012 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
12-31-2012 2:12 PM


Re: Regulation Proposal #1
or figure out why they are not working.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 8 of 955 (686357)
12-31-2012 2:20 PM


Regulation proposal #4 -- gun transfers
Pass a federal regulation that a guns cannot change hands until the gun registration and new owner gun licenses are updated.
In theory then any gun is traced directly to the owner, and any gun that is not properly registered and/or that is not in the possession of the licensed gun owner is an illegal weapon that can be confiscated and returned to the proper owner.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : subt
Edited by RAZD, : subt

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 955 (686358)
12-31-2012 2:21 PM


Regulation proposal #5 -- 1 gun at a time
Pass a federal regulation that no more than 1 operational gun may be carried at any time and that no more than 5 bullets for that gun may be carried at any time.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : subt

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 10 of 955 (686360)
12-31-2012 2:24 PM


Regulation proposal #6 -- insurance
Pass a federal regulation that states must require gun owners to carry insurance to cover liability and damages from either accidental or intentional use for each gun owned.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 955 (686364)
12-31-2012 2:33 PM


Regulation proposal #7 -- ammo tracking
Pass a federal regulation that all ammunition must have a tracking system so that the used ammunition can be tracked back to the registered owner.
US6810816B2 - Ammunition tracking system - Google Patents
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1482 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 955 (686365)
12-31-2012 2:36 PM


Regulation proposal #8 -- ammo purchase
Pass a federal regulation that both gun license and registration need to be provided in order to purchase ammunition.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 13 of 955 (686367)
12-31-2012 2:52 PM


Pass a law that murder using a gun merits life in prison without the possibility of parole.
(Wait! Didn't they already do that?)

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9530
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 14 of 955 (686372)
12-31-2012 3:09 PM


Given where you are, to make any difference at all, you'd have to get properly harsh.
An outright ban on the ownership of handguns and assault weapons. A recall of existing guns in those categories and strong Federal - not state - licensing of hunting rifles and shotguns.
And don't dick about splitting hairs with definitions.
Good luck with all that.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 15 of 955 (686373)
12-31-2012 3:11 PM


Let's...
Following the Newtown massacre there has been an outcry from the left for more and tougher gun laws. Sen. Dianne Feinstein has proposed another assault weapons ban with more teeth than the previous ban. Exactly what are consequences of tough gun laws? Let us construct a hypothetical place with some strict gun laws:
Let’s regulate the sale, possession and use of firearms.
Let’s regulate ammunition.
Let’s insist that those possessing firearms have a Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card.
Let’s ban automatic firearms, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.
Let’s ban assault weapons.
Let’s ban magazines that can hold more than 10 or 12 rounds of ammunition.
Let’s deny gun ownership to those who have been convicted of a felony or an act of domestic violence, are the subject of an order of protection, have been convicted of assault or battery or been a patient in a mental institution within the last five years, have been adjudicated as a mental defective, or are illegal immigrants.
For want of a better name, let’s call a place with gun laws like this--Chicago.
What America would look like with strict gun laws - Flopping Aces

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