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Author
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Topic: How can we regulate guns ... ?
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 1 of 955 (686347)
12-31-2012 10:35 AM
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The current thread, Gun Control Again, has -imho- reached it's inevitable end with people talking past each other and reiterating their positions. Nothing new, and it is probably time to close that thread. I'd like to shift the focus to ways to regulate guns:
- so that legitimate users can fulfill their needs
- hunters
- collectors
- self defense proponents
- security people
- police
- so that a well regulated state militias can be maintained (per the constitution)
- National Guard
- constitutional militia organizations
- gun club militia organizations(1)
- general population
- so that non-legitimate use can be reduced from
- criminals
- irrational/delusional/unstable people
- people under the influence of drugs, alcohol, rage
For the sake of argument on this thread, it is taken as given that fewer unregulated guns in the hands of fewer untrained people will result in fewer deaths (accidental and intentional), so the purpose is to achieve that end.
Gun deaths, including mass murder rampages, will still occur even with very strict regulations.
But regulations do reduce the overall incidence of these deaths, and that is the goal. So what are your proposals for gun regulation? Enjoy.
(1) - "gun club militias" would be all those groups that do not fit the constitional definition of militia -- ie as detailed here: http://congressionalconstitutioncaucus-garr.../...nstitution
quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Article I Section 8 - The Congress shall have Power ... To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; Article II Section 2 - The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, ... Amendment II - A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 932 by RAZD, posted 01-29-2013 11:27 AM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 3 of 955 (686352)
12-31-2012 2:04 PM
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Regulation Proposal #1 owner licenses
Pass a federal regulation that all gun owners must be licensed by each state, with photo ID, fingerprints and a DNA sample, and documentation that they have been trained in proper gun use, with separate training document for every gun owned. Records to be kept by the FBI and would searchable with their other data bases to track criminals. Fees for the licenses to be sufficient to cover the costs of issuing and recording the licenses. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : fees Edited by RAZD, : subt
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 6 by Coyote, posted 12-31-2012 2:12 PM | | RAZD has replied | | | Message 34 by Jon, posted 01-01-2013 12:51 PM | | RAZD has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 4 of 955 (686353)
12-31-2012 2:06 PM
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Regulation Proposal #2 -- gun registration
Pass a federal regulation that all guns must be registered in every state, referenced to the owners gun license. The FBI would be charged with maintaining the whole record, and checking them for multiple entries (DNA, fingerprints). Fees for the registration to be sufficient to cover the costs of issuing and maintaining the registration records etc. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : fees Edited by RAZD, : subt
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 5 of 955 (686354)
12-31-2012 2:11 PM
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Regulation Proposal #3 -- federal registry
Keep a federal registry (FBI) of previously convicted criminal gun users plus irrational/delusional/unstable people -- with doctors required to submit names -- to use as part of the data base for license background checks by the states before gun licenses are issued. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : subt
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 7 of 955 (686356)
12-31-2012 2:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
12-31-2012 2:12 PM
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Re: Regulation Proposal #1
or figure out why they are not working. Enjoy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Coyote, posted 12-31-2012 2:12 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by Jon, posted 01-01-2013 12:45 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 8 of 955 (686357)
12-31-2012 2:20 PM
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Regulation proposal #4 -- gun transfers
Pass a federal regulation that a guns cannot change hands until the gun registration and new owner gun licenses are updated. In theory then any gun is traced directly to the owner, and any gun that is not properly registered and/or that is not in the possession of the licensed gun owner is an illegal weapon that can be confiscated and returned to the proper owner. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : subt Edited by RAZD, : subt
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 9 of 955 (686358)
12-31-2012 2:21 PM
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Regulation proposal #5 -- 1 gun at a time
Pass a federal regulation that no more than 1 operational gun may be carried at any time and that no more than 5 bullets for that gun may be carried at any time. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : subt
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 10 of 955 (686360)
12-31-2012 2:24 PM
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Regulation proposal #6 -- insurance
Pass a federal regulation that states must require gun owners to carry insurance to cover liability and damages from either accidental or intentional use for each gun owned. Enjoy
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 11 of 955 (686364)
12-31-2012 2:33 PM
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Regulation proposal #7 -- ammo tracking
Pass a federal regulation that all ammunition must have a tracking system so that the used ammunition can be tracked back to the registered owner. US6810816B2 - Ammunition tracking system
- Google Patents Enjoy
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 12 of 955 (686365)
12-31-2012 2:36 PM
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Regulation proposal #8 -- ammo purchase
Pass a federal regulation that both gun license and registration need to be provided in order to purchase ammunition. Enjoy
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 21 of 955 (686389)
12-31-2012 4:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by Genomicus
12-31-2012 4:12 PM
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That may be true for the most part, but the CT shooting doesn't fall into that classification. Perhaps because it falls in a different category than most crime gun killings? The answer to mass murder rampages will be different to the answer to crime killings, yes? What regulations could help reduce mass murder rampages? Enjoy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by Genomicus, posted 12-31-2012 4:12 PM | | Genomicus has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by Genomicus, posted 12-31-2012 5:06 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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(1)
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Message 22 of 955 (686391)
12-31-2012 4:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 17 by onifre
12-31-2012 3:45 PM
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Re: Let's...
The answer there is NOT to loosen up the gun laws and make it the wild west. So what kind of regulations work best? Enjoy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by onifre, posted 12-31-2012 3:45 PM | | onifre has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by onifre, posted 01-01-2013 10:49 PM | | RAZD has seen this message but not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 27 of 955 (686413)
01-01-2013 8:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 24 by Coyote
12-31-2012 9:12 PM
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the topic is how can we regulate guns ... to reduce gun deaths
Hi Coyote
After a school massacre, the U.K. banned handguns in 1998. A decade later, handgun crime had doubled. These are two different things.
Americans are determined that massacres such as happened in Newtown, Conn., never happen again. But how? Many advocate more effective treatment of mentally-ill people or armed protection in so-called gun-free zones. Many others demand stricter control of firearms. What kind of regulations do you think would help reduce mass killing rampages? Enjoy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 24 by Coyote, posted 12-31-2012 9:12 PM | | Coyote has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by jar, posted 01-01-2013 9:55 AM | | RAZD has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 30 of 955 (686423)
01-01-2013 10:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 29 by Panda
01-01-2013 10:02 AM
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So what demonstrates that regulations are effective?
Hi Panda
Also, increasing the number of gun laws will increase the number of gun crimes. Because there are more activities considered crimes rather than there being more guns. Something that is legal today and illegal tomorrow is considered a crime tomorrow but not today. You would need to separate the data for arrests for activities breaking the new laws (and thus actually demonstrate the effectiveness of the new laws in reducing gun use) from arrests for activities breaking previous laws. Enjoy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by Panda, posted 01-01-2013 10:02 AM | | Panda has seen this message but not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 31 of 955 (686424)
01-01-2013 11:03 AM
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Reply to: Message 28 by jar
01-01-2013 9:55 AM
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Re: the topic is how can we regulate guns ... to reduce gun deaths
None. Sorry but it really is that simple. The key is reduction not elimination. Obviously when other countries have different statistics, there is a response to restrictions. One of the big issues for mass killings is mental health -imho- rather than guns per se -- so regulations providing more mental health care should help. Regulations restricting the access\ownership of automatic etc weapons that have been used in mass killings would mean shifting to some other method, and this could make it more difficult and time consuming, increasing the possibility of being detected. Enjoy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by jar, posted 01-01-2013 9:55 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 32 by jar, posted 01-01-2013 11:37 AM | | RAZD has replied |
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