How can we regulate guns ... ?

Panda writes: It's all about the paranoia of the government knowing what you are doing.Driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
Owning a gun is a right, not a privilege.Consider the Big Voter ID scare we just saw going down here. The knee-jerk liberal side argued against photo ID because, dammit, voting is a Right, not a privilege - and all ID methods wind up ultimately hurting minority constituencies. And I agreed with them.Now, imagine implementing some kind of a Gun Show ID - probably have to be a photo ID, at minimum, right? It's got a bonifide background check Seal of Approval - which means a deep probe into the privacy of the photo ID card holder has been made and Washington has the data on file - will this go over? - well, (channeling Bill Cosby, in his Noah skit): "Ri-i-i-i-ight."Then next, in their view, those evil Nazi-Communists running this country today will just look up the Gun Show ID list, round them all up and airlift them off to the Alaskan Gulag Northern ANWR Oil Pipeline prison camps after the Jack-Booted Thugs confiscate their guns.Right. This will go over real well.Does that explain the mindset of these people we live with here in this country?

Panda writes: You cannot require a license for a Right. A Right is inalienable. For example, recall the whole issue of Voter ID. You do not need a license to vote in this country. Never have, never will.

RAZD writes: I may have been taking Panda to task on your dime, so let me be quick to point out that it is you who are in the wrong here. You cannot ever require a license for something that is, essentially, an Inalienable Right. It's the Law of the Land, according to this current Supreme Court.Driving is only a granted privilege. It's not the least bit comparable.Perhaps you are hoping for some kind of voluntary system? Good luck with that....

Panda writes: Ok - to continue the voting analogy, say you now register to buy guns. You go to a gun show anywhere in the country and they are expected to have your name on a list at each show, plus any of the stores you may frequent? When you vote you can only go to one place to vote and they have the list. Now I, myself, wouldn't mind that analogy for buying guns - each gun buyer would have one place to buy guns with their name in a list there - but it will never fly in the US.So it would have be something different.How about let's just make it your NRA membership card? They aren't going to complain about that, are they? You go to a show, you gotta have an NRA card to buy. But there's still the nagging issue of a picture ID advantage. Without a picture any criminal could get a card from someone - say when they are also relieving them of their credit card & other stuff - just pocket the NRA card. So there would have be some fancy stuff on the card to prevent fraud - more than a signature. Maybe a PIN number that you have to secretly enter, like you do with these debit cards. They could even call it your Firing PIN.I'm wondering if the NRA revoked Michael Moore's card after he made "Bowling for Columbine"?

Dr. A writes: Indeed.
Why are there even Death Penalties?
Why hasn't this been used as a lawyer's defense on Death Row?

RAZD writes about a sort of license: I take my earlier objection back. But I am thinking of the Dick Van Dyke movie, Cold Turkey, and the Christopher Mott Society (a satire of the John Birch Society). The Mott Society is up in arms and livid about the town forcing everyone to quit smoking and infringing on their liberty. The solution was brilliant - Van Dyke's character puts the Society in charge of Security, complete with arm bands!Here is a job for the NRA. First make their membership cards more secure by adding a Firing PIN, similar to the PIN on our debit cards. Then require these cards at Gun Shows for purchase. NRA membership goes up! They are empowered!

Jon writes: LMAO. If it were even in the same ballpark of closeness....Don't you see? The NRA's image needs cleaning up. This is just for Gun Shows. They get to be in charge! They get more money (because the membership card will cost a wee bit more). They finally get to earn some respect across the aisle. And the transactions could be kept in their database to crosscheck when some nutjob goes haywire. They don't want any nutjobs either. They already promote gun safety and responsibility as much as they can. Here's another way they can help. The right-wingers who cling to their NRA membership would be on board with this - this is the NRA afterall, not some Nazi-Communist Black Man government edict they didn't have a chance to vote out. Put the NRA in charge of policing the Gun Shows this way. Criminals can't walk in & out so easy now.

Panda opines: The NRA card presents the most politically possible solution. Your speculation that there is a more neutral organization that would be acceptable for the very ones that we need to reach is probably Very Wrong. We need to save people, whenever possible. In order to keep it, you have to give it away. Let them have the power to control and police the gun sales at gun shows. Put it on their head. Give them the Responsibility they so admire. Remember when you're out there, trying to heal the sick, that you must always first forgive them.Vilifying them is like trying to blow the coat off the man with the harsh Wind instead of getting him to take it off with the warm Sun.

NoNukes says: Yeah. And, see - all that shit was thrown out. This country has grown up some. I was channeling Chuck Yeager in his car part commercial...

Welcome back, dude.

Jon writes to Panda: Well, my freedom to swing my arm ends at your nose, right? IF this country's population had had a well-developed SANE gun-owning behavior, they wouldn't be in this position. Problem is, as a whole, they abused their position. They blew it. No one can be trusted anymore. I say Background Checks, despite being a nebulous error-prone thing, are what they get for fucking it up.

Jon asks: He would be fine in a society that hasn't fucked it up. But this society has. Way too many people have died and die every day. The mindset is wrong. Until the mindset gets fixed, we live in a fucked up society that does not deserve to have the rights we want. Collectively, we are a misbehaving child that should be sent to the bedroom.We shot our optimal rights away in our own foot.

Jon responds to my post: We should have brought up our children better. We should have brought up our children better. We should have brought up our children better. We should have brought up our children better.

Panda demurs: AHEMMMPFT!
NoNukes has some catching up to do with me.My frog.

Panda writes: This is why my NRA card has the Firing PIN - no need for the seller to do a check, he just waits for you to enter your PIN. The NRA would then be responsible for renewing your membership as they already are, so if you commit a crime or get institutionalized, you cannot renew your card. They have the database, not the Federal Government. This minimizes the political difficulties across the country. While I concede that there may be gun lover nutjobs who do NOT trust the NRA, I would posit here that there are not very many of them. The overwhelming majority of gun lovers absolutely trust the NRA. This is your "Background-Has-Been-Checked" document, across state lines. Also, making this NRA card necessary at Gun Shows might at first seem onerous, like a Federal Government card certainly would, but - hey, it's the NRA - they won't fuck with us. The NRA topdogs would also be hard pressed not to have this authority, no? This is also why I picked the NRA. The first letter in their acronym stands for "national". Then ICANT's description of the tough rules in Florida begin to apply nationally.This only addresses the Gun Show loophole.CS notes: This is a different issue. In the OP this does fall into discussion. Other than the enormously hard task of making people prefer not to have & own guns, legalizing drugs, and increasing police forces in the inner city, there are few changes that would seem to have a chance at working.