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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 784 of 2932 (900183)
10-24-2022 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 775 by ringo
10-24-2022 1:03 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
I do understand that every time i buy a lottery ticket, my chances of winning are the same.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 775 by ringo, posted 10-24-2022 1:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 785 by Kleinman, posted 10-24-2022 4:17 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 796 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 11:49 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 787 of 2932 (900203)
10-25-2022 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 785 by Kleinman
10-24-2022 4:17 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
ringo wants me to teach you introductory probability theory when it is ringo that needs to learn that subject.
Poor ringo seems to think that the probability of winning the lottery once is equal to the probability of the same person winning the lottery 1000 times in a row. Little wonder he thinks the scientific impossibility of abiogenesis by natural means is statistically inevitable.
Atheists fantasies are kinda embarrassing.
He's the one that believes that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals.
More embarrassing atheist fantasies.
That's what happens when biologists think they understand mathematics by taking a survey of mathematics course and barely passing that course.
Why should evolutionary scientists bother with mathematics when they can invent fairy tales about what happened millions of years ago and pass them off as facts?
The atheistic cult of Darwinism thrives on dreaming up bedtime stories about the ancient past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 785 by Kleinman, posted 10-24-2022 4:17 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 788 by AZPaul3, posted 10-25-2022 2:57 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 789 by Kleinman, posted 10-25-2022 8:57 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 798 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 11:59 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 791 of 2932 (900216)
10-25-2022 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 788 by AZPaul3
10-25-2022 2:57 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
AZPaul3 writes:
weak mind
Well, I have stated many times on this forum that I have a fragile, eggshell mind. Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit has convinced me the truth of the Catholic Church ... the truth you have yet to discover.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 788 by AZPaul3, posted 10-25-2022 2:57 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 792 by AZPaul3, posted 10-25-2022 9:35 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 807 of 2932 (900241)
10-25-2022 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 802 by ringo
10-25-2022 12:25 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
ringo writes:
We add one piece at a time - and the probability of that is very, very good.
The probability that your "one piece at a time" hypothesis is pure fantasy is very, very good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 802 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 12:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 808 by Kleinman, posted 10-25-2022 1:03 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 809 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 1:06 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 817 of 2932 (900255)
10-25-2022 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 796 by ringo
10-25-2022 11:49 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
ringo writes:
Then you should also understand that winning the lottery twice is no harder than winning it once. And winning it ten times is no harder than winning it once. And winning it a thousand times is not harder than winning it once.
Let's try a simpler example of probability:
If I toss a coin once, the probability of getting a head is 1/2.
If I toss a coin three times, what is the probability of getting three heads?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 796 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by ringo, posted 10-26-2022 3:29 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 818 of 2932 (900259)
10-25-2022 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 796 by ringo
10-25-2022 11:49 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
ringo writes:
Then you should also understand that winning the lottery twice is no harder than winning it once. And winning it ten times is no harder than winning it once. And winning it a thousand times is not harder than winning it once.
Of course it's harder ... much harder ... bcoz you multiply the probabilities of winning each lottery.
So if the probability of winning once is one in a million (10-6), the probability of winning twice in a row is 10-6 × 10-6 = 10-12.
The probability of winning 1000 times in a row would be (10-6)¹⁰⁰⁰
= 10-6000
which represents a statistical impossibility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 796 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 822 by Kleinman, posted 10-26-2022 9:37 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 845 by ringo, posted 10-26-2022 3:32 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 819 of 2932 (900264)
10-25-2022 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 796 by ringo
10-25-2022 11:49 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
ringo writes:
Then you should also understand that winning the lottery twice is no harder than winning it once. And winning it ten times is no harder than winning it once. And winning it a thousand times is not harder than winning it once.
Let's imagine the same person won the lottery 5 times. If the question was:
What is the probability of that person winning the 1st lottery OR the 2nd lottery OR the 3rd lottery OR the 4th lottery OR the 5th lottery,
the answer would be, the probability of winning just one lottery (assuming P for winning each lottery is the same).
But that is not the question. The question is, what is the the probability of winning all five lotteries in a row - ie, winning the 1st lottery AND the 2nd lottery AND the 3rd lottery AND the 4th lottery AND the 5th lottery?
In that case, the answer is
P(winning one lottery) × P(winning one lottery) ×
P(winning one lottery) ×
P(winning one lottery) ×
P(winning one lottery).
= P(winning one lottery)⁵

This message is a reply to:
 Message 796 by ringo, posted 10-25-2022 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 848 by ringo, posted 10-26-2022 3:40 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 820 of 2932 (900265)
10-26-2022 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 803 by Kleinman
10-25-2022 12:28 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
think what Dredge is saying is that the probability of abiogenesis is so low, that it might as well be negative.
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying ... and you seem to be the only poster here to realise that I was using a ridiculous hyperbole (a probability of less than 1) to match a ridiculous proposition (natural abiogenesis).
amino acids have a half-life, they are not stable molecules.
Atheist dreamers who believe in natural abiogenesis expect us to believe that the first viable life-form began as maybe a lucky amino acid that rolled around in the ocean until it bumped into another lucky amino acid and some other lucky molecules, which together just happened to form part of a cell. This lucky process continued until ... hey presto! ... they formed a very lucky living organism that started living and feeding and reproducing! Wow!
I wonder how much time elapsed between each lucky stage of construction.
How would a lucky fraction of a cell manage to stay intact until it bumped into the next lucky part of the jigsaw?
Why would such a mindless, aimless, lifeless process produce an organism that reproduces?
The hypothesis of natural
abiogenesis is so improbable, unscientific and idiotic that it beggars belief that any half-intelligent, half-sane adult would accept it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 803 by Kleinman, posted 10-25-2022 12:28 PM Kleinman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 851 by ringo, posted 10-26-2022 3:59 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 821 of 2932 (900268)
10-26-2022 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 789 by Kleinman
10-25-2022 8:57 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
Darwin did get two important things right. He understood that two important aspects of biological evolution are biological competition and descent with modification. The error is in grossly over-extrapolating these two physical processes into universal common descent.
Yes, it's a bizarre case of applying wild extrapolation to science until it morphs into science-fiction
... a bit like saying,
"Humans are running 100 metres faster today than they did 70 years ago. Therefore, in the very distant future, humans will be able to run 100 metres in just 1 second."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by Kleinman, posted 10-25-2022 8:57 AM Kleinman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 823 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 11:18 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 824 of 2932 (900282)
10-26-2022 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 822 by Kleinman
10-26-2022 9:37 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
And you know what they will say when their lab experiments to demonstrate abiogenesis don't work? We don't have billions of years to work with in the lab but we know that abiogenesis happened.
Ah yes, the magic wand of deep time - it can make scientific impossibilities possible! La La Land.
I suspect abiogenesis research is driven by atheism's deep-seated psychological need to find the "silver bullet" that will prove God wasn't necessary for life to begin. But it's a fool's errand - they'll never find it.
However, that won't stop the meaningless claims of "progress" and advances in "understanding" by deluded researchers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 822 by Kleinman, posted 10-26-2022 9:37 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 825 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 11:53 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 829 by Kleinman, posted 10-26-2022 12:16 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 830 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 12:23 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 826 of 2932 (900284)
10-26-2022 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 823 by AZPaul3
10-26-2022 11:18 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
AZPaul3 writes:
I hope you're not crazy enough to think that atoms are large. They aren’t. They are very, very, very small.
Actually, I had heard that atoms are very small (although I hadn't heard that they're "very, very, very" small).
Is an atom as small as my brain?
The other vital element is, of course, deep time
Oh yes, deep time can do amazing things. I mean, just look at how lots of time carved out those four faces on Mount Rushmore! Very impressive, I must say.
I avoided a lot of big words and big concepts that might confuse you
Thank you, I appreciate that. I don't like big words and big concepts ... they scare me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 11:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 827 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 12:11 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 828 of 2932 (900286)
10-26-2022 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 825 by AZPaul3
10-26-2022 11:53 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
After having carefully and fairly considered your comment, I've come to the conclusion that it's unworthy of merit, for the following reason:
Your comment fails to explain why an otherwise sane and intelligent person would be so stupid and deluded as to think it's possible to know how viable life arose from inanimate matter.
In contrast, I provided a quite plausible explanation for why an otherwise sane and intelligent person would be so stupid and deluded as to think it's possible to know how life arose from inanimate matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 11:53 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 831 of 2932 (900289)
10-26-2022 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 827 by AZPaul3
10-26-2022 12:11 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
AZPaul writes:
Given the tone of your post I assume it was all in jest. You have to be careful though.  Religionists are so fuckin stupid I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Mt. Rushmore was a natural phenomenon carved billions of years ago by your god.
"jest"? Not at all. If nature alone could have produced abiogenesis, nature alone could have produced the faces on Mt. Rushmore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 12:11 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 832 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 12:27 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 833 of 2932 (900292)
10-26-2022 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by Kleinman
10-26-2022 12:16 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Kleinman writes:
You know that this abiogenesis research would stop if it wasn't paid for by taxpayers. Abiogenesis research hasn't provided anything useful to anyone except for those paid by government grants for this nonsense.
A shameful waste of taxpayers hard-earned money, chasing fairies at the bottom of the garden.
Abiogenesis research is as futile and useless as research into Universal Common Descent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by Kleinman, posted 10-26-2022 12:16 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 835 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 12:43 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 837 by Kleinman, posted 10-26-2022 1:30 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 104 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 834 of 2932 (900293)
10-26-2022 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by AZPaul3
10-26-2022 11:18 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Judging by your comments, I think you should give serious thought to writing science-fiction for a living ... you're a deadset natural!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 11:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 836 by AZPaul3, posted 10-26-2022 12:49 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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