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Author Topic:   Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 144 of 2790 (898225)
09-20-2022 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Kleinman
09-20-2022 6:58 PM


Re: Apples and oranges
The probability of a particular random recombination event occurring will be low unless the frequency of the two alleles is high in the population.
There we have it - the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Kleinman, posted 09-20-2022 6:58 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Kleinman, posted 09-21-2022 8:05 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 416 of 2790 (899553)
10-16-2022 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Kleinman
10-15-2022 11:56 PM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
I'm saying that descent with modification (DNA evolutionary adaptation) requires huge populations to operate even when considering a single selection pressure environment.
So according to your mathematical model, how many generations would it take for a population of, say, 100,000 leopards to change from having spots to no spots ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Kleinman, posted 10-15-2022 11:56 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Kleinman, posted 10-16-2022 7:52 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 581 of 2790 (899834)
10-20-2022 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 580 by Dredge
10-20-2022 12:53 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
The probability of life arising naturally from inanimate matter would be LESS than zero
No probability is less than zero. Study a bit of maths.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 580 by Dredge, posted 10-20-2022 12:53 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 582 by Dredge, posted 10-20-2022 5:08 AM vimesey has replied
 Message 585 by Kleinman, posted 10-20-2022 7:06 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 583 of 2790 (899836)
10-20-2022 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 582 by Dredge
10-20-2022 5:08 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
You really do know how to put your foot in it, don't you. Try reading this and educate yourself:

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by Dredge, posted 10-20-2022 5:08 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 586 by Dredge, posted 10-20-2022 7:56 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 587 of 2790 (899849)
10-20-2022 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 586 by Dredge
10-20-2022 7:56 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
And you manage to contradict yourself in 54 words.
I'll leave you be - you've dug your own hole here.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Dredge, posted 10-20-2022 7:56 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 588 by Kleinman, posted 10-20-2022 8:42 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 589 by Dredge, posted 10-20-2022 10:29 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 616 of 2790 (899920)
10-21-2022 3:37 AM


Dredge has still not grasped the basics of probability:
With all due respect, explaining how
P (natural abiogenesis) < 0
is arrived at mathematically would be lost on you ... for the simple (no pun intended) reason that no atheist can understand the mathematics of God.
As has been pointed out to him very clearly, probability cannot be less than zero, and yet still he persists.
Kleinman must be so proud to have Dredge on his side.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by Kleinman, posted 10-21-2022 8:18 AM vimesey has replied
 Message 625 by dwise1, posted 10-21-2022 10:19 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 629 by Dredge, posted 10-21-2022 11:34 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 622 of 2790 (899934)
10-21-2022 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 621 by Kleinman
10-21-2022 8:18 AM


From your reply to dwise1:
What Dredge is talking about is the multiplication rule of probabilities. Is it Dredge's job to teach you introductory probability theory?
From your reply to me (re Dredge):
Not everyone on this forum has knowledge of introductory probability theory let alone experts on the subject.
You've just contradicted yourself in two messages, posted within 9 minutes of each other. Gotta be a record.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by Kleinman, posted 10-21-2022 8:18 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by Kleinman, posted 10-21-2022 9:30 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 663 of 2790 (900010)
10-22-2022 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 662 by Dredge
10-22-2022 6:12 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Feminism is demonic poison.
Your entertainment value has vanished with this.
You're a vile human being. My engagement with you is at an end.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 6:12 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 664 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 8:24 AM vimesey has replied
 Message 670 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:01 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 665 of 2790 (900013)
10-22-2022 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 664 by AZPaul3
10-22-2022 8:24 AM


Re: Kleinman does not think mutations can be passed down to descendants
Yep - and in Australia, misogyny is one of the main national pastimes, as I understand it.
Australia’s above-average sexism highlighted in global report

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2022 8:24 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 672 by Dredge, posted 10-22-2022 10:27 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(3)
Message 997 of 2790 (900557)
10-28-2022 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 996 by Taq
10-28-2022 4:05 PM


Re: Addition Rule Confusion
Indeed. Maths is moulded to describe reality. It doesn't dictate reality.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 996 by Taq, posted 10-28-2022 4:05 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 998 by Taq, posted 10-28-2022 4:27 PM vimesey has replied
 Message 1003 by Kleinman, posted 10-28-2022 6:19 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 999 of 2790 (900560)
10-28-2022 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 998 by Taq
10-28-2022 4:27 PM


Re: Addition Rule Confusion
Indeed. But we know he's a fervent Catholic, so nothing will convince him to drop his delusions. If he did, he'd end up doubting his belief he'll go to heaven when he dies. (Whilst ignoring all the child abuse his church has been covering up for decades).

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 998 by Taq, posted 10-28-2022 4:27 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1005 by Kleinman, posted 10-28-2022 6:22 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 1015 of 2790 (900580)
10-28-2022 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1005 by Kleinman
10-28-2022 6:22 PM


Re: Addition Rule Confusion
What?????? That's another one you are wrong on.
As a mathematician, you will no doubt be able to give me the odds that every single one of the 216,000 instances of child abuse in the Catholic church in France, which were determined by a 30 month enquiry to have occurred since the 1950s did not, in fact, occur.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1005 by Kleinman, posted 10-28-2022 6:22 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1016 by Kleinman, posted 10-29-2022 9:18 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 1072 of 2790 (900660)
10-30-2022 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1016 by Kleinman
10-29-2022 9:18 AM


Re: Addition Rule Confusion
You are mistaken if you think this great evil is limited to the Catholic Church. 
Oh I'm not saying it's limited to the Catholic church, Mr Divert-and-Hope-They'll-Go-Away. What I am saying is that for decades the Catholic church lied and covered up the vast numbers of paedophile priests who were sexually abusing children in their churches. They moved the priests to other churches where they set out to abuse thousands more children just to lie and protect the Catholic church's reputation.
That reputation was worth more to them than continuing to subject innocent children to the vile horror of paedophilia.
So they lied. And lied. And lied again for decades. Despite the Bible's rather clear guidance.on the topic:
The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in people who are trustworthy. (Proverbs 12:22)
I detest paedophiles (though, just to correct you, I have been fortunate enough not to have been subjected to it). But I detest just as much a supposedly Christian church which lies in order to protect its reputation, when the cost of those lies is the continued subjection of hundreds of thousands of innocent children to a vile and disgusting crime.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1016 by Kleinman, posted 10-29-2022 9:18 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1075 by Kleinman, posted 10-30-2022 11:47 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 1707 of 2790 (901852)
11-15-2022 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1705 by Kleinman
11-15-2022 8:19 AM


Re: Kleinman does not know asexual vs sexual
This is an extract from Sattler College's website:
The modern higher education system is broken. Modern education is hostile to faith, too expensive, and academically weak. We need nothing short of a revolution. Sattler College was founded upon the biblical vision of Christian discipleship that addresses the mind, soul, and heart. Our mission is to provide an education that instructs the mind, discipleship that shapes the soul, and inspiration that inflames the heart. Our goal is to enable graduates to heartily say, “For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power, love, and a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7).
Nuff said.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1705 by Kleinman, posted 11-15-2022 8:19 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1708 by Kleinman, posted 11-15-2022 9:15 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1382
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 2214 of 2790 (902743)
11-27-2022 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2209 by AZPaul3
11-27-2022 11:19 AM


Re: Usable energy
Hi Paul - I found this useful article which states that in 2008, Daniel Styler showed that the earth is bathed in around one trillion times the amount of entropy flux required to support the evolution of complex life. So yes, what you say is correct.
It's also a very useful run-through of how the second law of thermodynamics does indeed support the evolution of life - as well as pointing out the simplistic bull which creationists like Kleinman try to peddle.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2209 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 11:19 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2217 by Kleinman, posted 11-27-2022 12:27 PM vimesey has replied
 Message 2220 by AZPaul3, posted 11-27-2022 12:34 PM vimesey has replied

  
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