Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..."

Tanypteryx:

---

Like I said, no content from Conman the Bullshit Peddler, just repetitious drivel. It does not look like he is going to have any success at sabotaging science.

---

Tany has learned all kinds of science chasing bugs around, but he can't explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. But he does know that a germ cell line can get 200k retroviral infections that don't harm that cell line. That is Tany's science. Tany, tell us how that happens.

vimesey:

---

What makes me smile is picturing Kleinman as Plankton.

---

So, that's how the eye evolved, it was in plankton. Do you want to tell me how I evolved the ability to do photosynthesis?

Kleinman:

---

I'm not the one claiming there are links that explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.

ringo:

---

Tell it to Google.

---

---

They are your imaginary links, tell Google yourself.

Kleinman:

---

They are your imaginary links, tell Google yourself.

ringo:

---

Don't be silly. I got those links from Google. I don't need to tell them about their own links. If YOU think they're posting "imaginary" links, YOU need to tell them.

---

---

If they werem't imaginary links, you would post them. I'll show you again how to do it. For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance
It's that easy, instead of all your caterwauling.

Kleinman:

---

It's that easy, instead of all your caterwauling.

ringo:

---

Caterwauling is a sound. There are no sounds in any of my posts.

---

---

The fake cowboy thinks that caterwauling has to be a sound.

vimesey:

---

The linguistic experts at Merriam Webster are of a different view to you:

---

vimesey doesn't speak cowboy slang. And vimesey won't explain how I got the ability to do photosynthesis. I wonder if vimesey can do mathematics. Just what have you been smoking? All it does for you is make you caterwaul.

Kleinman:

---

For a single selection pressure:
The basic science and mathematics of random mutation and natural selection
And for multiple simultaneous selection pressures:
The mathematics of random mutation and natural selection for multiple simultaneous selection pressures and the evolution of antimicrobial drug resistance

AZPaul3:

---

CAUTION: The listed papers above are considered to be bogus, filled with incorrect math and inappropriate conclusions.

---

---

Spoken like a true mathematical incompetent. Oh, pardon me, written like a true mathematical incompetent.

vimesey:

---

And yet in the Cowboy Lingo Dictionary, caterwaul isn't mentioned:

quote:

---

Cowboy Lingo Dictionary

vimesey:

---

Care to dig your hole any deeper on this one Kleinman ?

---

---

---

He sure does caterwaul a lot.
Fun with Words – Cowboy Slang, Lingo, and Jargon - The Chief Storyteller Now tell me how I evolved the ability to do photosynthesis.

Kleinman:

---

Oh, pardon me, written like a true mathematical incompetent.

AZPaul3:

---

Exactly. Thank you Mr. Obvious. That's what I'm warning everyone about. Your papers were written by a true mathematical incompetent.

---

---

Now that AZPaul3 has shown his mathematical competency, he will now explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. I like your Wizard of Oz picture.

Kleinman:

---

Now that AZPaul3 has shown his mathematical competency, he will now ...

AZPaul3:

---

Your powers of prognostication really suck. Is that part of the mental disconnect you have with math and evolution and genetics and reality?

---

---

What, no Wizard of Oz picture? Maybe this will do it. AZPaul3 will now give us a mathematical description of the Kishony and Lenski experiments. I prognosticate that it won't happen.

Kleinman:

---

I prognosticate that it won't happen.

AZPaul3:

---

Very good. You're improving.

---

---

It's easy to prognosticate that you don't understand why drug resistance evolves and how cancer treatments fail. And to ask you to do the mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments is like asking a biologist to do the math. They can't do it either.

I knew you had it in you.

Kleinman:

---

The fake cowboy thinks that caterwauling has to be a sound.

ringo:

---

Thank you for demonstrating how stupid creationists are.

---

---

Watch the caterwauling fake cowboy post his fake links describing how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.
Message 2639

Kleinman:

---

Spoken like a true mathematical incompetent.

ringo:

---

Well, you're the one who doesn't understand that A → B and A → C are not the same as B → c. That's incompetent.

---

---

Now the caterwauling fake cowboy wants to be a caterwauling fake mathematician. Post some of your fake links that explain how drug resistance evolves and whay cancer treatments fail. And do it without making a sound.

Kleinman:

---

Pick up any introductory probability theory text and learn how to use the addition rule.

Taq:

---

You fucking moron. I showed you my calculations with the addition rule and you thought the numbers represented number of generations and selection. You don't have an inkling what the addition rule is.

---

---

You finally learn some high school-level math (although very slowly) and you think you have proven UCD with a silly and mundane calculation.

Kleinman:

---

You really don't get it. When the carrying capacity is greater than the population size, the population can become more diverse. Descent with modification works faster when there is no competition. That's why the Kishony experiment gets five adaptive mutations in about 11 days while the Lenski experiment gets about 100 adaptive mutations in 30 years. You don't understand the thermodynamics. You spend too much time doing imaginary problems.

Taq:

---

The stupid. It burns. There is no descent with modification when there is no competition. There was competition in the Kishony experiment. There was competition in the Lenski experiment. You don't even have a grasp on the basics of reality.

---

---

Why doesn't this hot physicist and mathematician point out to us all which variants are fixed in the Kishony experiment? You won't because you are wrong. That's why you can't do the physics or mathematics of either experiment. You don't even know what Kishony's bacteria are competing for.

Kleinman:

---

You couldn't figure out how descent with modification works for asexual replicators and now you can't figure out how descent with modification works for sexual replicators. You don't know how biological evolution works. You are ignorant of the physics and ignorant of the mathematics and you are a very slow learner.

Taq:

---

You fucking moron. I just showed you multiple papers that describe how sexual reproduction changes descent with modification. Read the fucking papers.

---

---

All the papers are based on a single selection pressure and a constant environment. You are so confused, you think the savannah is a single selection pressure constant environment. You are very confused and a slow learner.

Kleinman:

---

You are very confused. You should read the following lines in my publication:

Taq:

---

Your publication assumes there is only one possible beneficial mutation in any given genome. That is not true for all genomes. That's the part you can't seem to get through your thick fucking skull.

---

---

You are so slow. Do you want me to post the quote from the paper again where I don't make that assumption? It won't help you because you are so confused and you are an inattentive reader.

Kleinman:

---

ou don't think that sexually reproducing populations have to get adaptive alleles with two or more beneficial mutations. You should publish that little bit of wisdom. No wonder you can't explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail.

Taq:

---

If those two or more beneficial mutations occur in unlinked loci then they will be moved into the same genetic background, you fucking moron.

---

---

Poor Taq, he is so confused. He doesn't understand that the way new alleles are generated is through descent with modification (mutations). Recombination can only shuffle existing alleles. Recombination won't accelerate the evolution of a beta-lactamase because all the mutations must occur in the same allele. Those five mutations take about (1/mutation rate) replications, and for E. coli, that's about 5 billion replications. And poor Taq thinks that it doesn't matter how many selection pressures exist in a population. No wonder he doesn't understand why 3 drug therapy works for the treatment of HIV and combination therapy works for the control of weeds and insects. In his confused world, there is only one selection pressure in a constant environment. Taq is so confused that he believes that reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals but can't explain how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail. Taq should have studied more physics and mathematics than he did in his survey of physics course and survey of mathematics course. All it did was leave him very confused.

MrIntelligentDesign:

---

VERY GOOD post!
​
On the other thread, in Evolution vs Intelligent Design, those supporters of Evolution cannot answer challenges on the topic of intelligence.
​
Kleinman, I read your article on probability of mutation in a given population. My name is Edgar Alberto Postrado, you can google me in the internet. I am the discoverer of intelligence.
​
Will you reconsider making a new probability, in where the limit will be the limit of intelligence?
​
Normally, the maximum Natural probability is 1, but the maximum limit of intelligence that I discovered is 3, and the minimum limit
of intelligence is 1.5. Through this, we can create new Probability Calculation, I called it "Intelligence Probability, iProb".
​
Will you help me formulate and derive formulas for this new probability Calculation, and let us submit the findings to any Mathematical journal?

---

Thank you for your post. Let me make this clear. I do believe that evolution happens. In my medical practice, I have to deal with drug resistant infections which are caused by evolution. What I do think is that the idea of universal common descent is mathematically irrational nonsense and experiments and data shows that. What experiments and empirical data show is that adaptive evolution is much less likely to occur if the population has to evolve to multiple selection pressures simultaneously. This is due to the multiplication rule of probabilities, a subject that biologists like Taq and Tanypteryx have little or no training or experience. That's why they can't explain the evolution of drug resistance or why cancer treatments fail.The key to solving any probability problem is identifying the random trial (experiment). There are simple examples that help teach how to do that, such as tossing a coin, rolling dice, or drawing cards. For descent with modification, recognizing that one of the random trials is a replication and the possible outcomes are does a beneficial mutation occur or not. A mutation is also a random trial. A base substitution, deletion, insertion, or any other error can occur at that site. Then, it is a matter of applying the theorems and axioms of probability theory to derive the probability equations. The same kind of process can be used to derive the probability equation that governs recombination. You must then understand how to combine these equations with the deterministic components of evolution (for example, biological competition) to correctly model an evolutionary process. This is something that goes way over the heads of biologists. That's why they are still muddling around trying to model simple evolutionary examples such as the Kishony and Lenski experiments.

MrIntelligentDesign:

---

The new Intelligent Design is making or creating new Probability calculation. I think that it will revolutionize the whole world, mathematics and science. And be very good in the topic of IA and engineering and many application, plus, falsifying Evolution.
​
I will explain to you how we can use that in real life, especially, in falsifying Evolution.
​
Please, answer me and let us change the world and science.
Let us kick out Evolution in science, and replace Evolution with my new theory,
Biological Interrelation, BiTs.
​
Hoping to join forces with you to uproot Evolution and help science.

---

Again, I am not trying to "uproot Evolution". Evolution does happen in biological populations. The Theory of Evolution has a major flaw, the concept of universal common descent. Descent with modification, recombination, and biological competition does happen. Still, the rate of adaptive evolution depends on many factors including population size, mutation rate, number of selection conditions, and carrying capacity of the environment... There is plenty of evidence of Intelligent Design that biologists ignore because of their bias. You only have to look at the microanatomy of a cell to see this. You have molecular pumps, valves, motors, chemical sequences to take energy molecules and break them down for fuel, etc. Michael Behe has pointed this out with his study of bacterial flagella. The problem is trying to formulate a mathematical explanation for this. Is it even a probability problem? What is the random trial? How do you mathematically model Creation?Evolution is an ongoing process that can be mathematically modeled and biologists like Taq and Tanpteryx are not trained as scientists and do a terrible job with their storytelling. That is why they are failures at describing the simplest examples of evolution. That is why the concept of universal common descent will go the way of phrenology from the field of biology. It just takes a little time for these zealots to learn the mathematical and physical facts of life.