|
Author
|
Topic: Choosing a faith
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
Message 84 of 3694 (897124)
08-29-2022 3:08 PM
|
Reply to: Message 80 by Stile
08-29-2022 2:48 PM
|
|
Re: Welcome Back GDR
Stile writes: In this sense... I think that personally-created-purpose has the potential to be greater and better than any possible "Ultimate, Objective Purpose!" handed over by any other possible entity. Perhaps that's what Jesus meant when He said "Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe." It's not that they believe in themselves or even in humanity alone. It's that they believe that an Ultimate Objective Purpose exists. You might agree that a well-thought-out and disciplined personally created purpose is as close as you can get. Edited by Phat, : added final sentence.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by Stile, posted 08-29-2022 2:48 PM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 108 by Stile, posted 08-30-2022 11:24 AM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 86 of 3694 (897126)
08-29-2022 3:23 PM
|
Reply to: Message 67 by ringo
08-29-2022 12:57 PM
|
|
Making It All Up
GDR writes: My point is that it isn’t about choosing which deity that we choose to worship, but the nature of whatever deity we choose.
ringo writes: That sounds a lot like making up the God you want and never mind the reality. Do you really think that the authors of scripture "made up" a God that they didn't want? You tell me that the God of scripture is as close to reality as we can get in describing God. What's wrong with me "making up" the God I want while remaining respectful of reality? Edited by Phat, : punctuation
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 12:57 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 93 by nwr, posted 08-29-2022 4:10 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 98 by Percy, posted 08-29-2022 5:09 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 109 by ringo, posted 08-30-2022 11:40 AM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 91 of 3694 (897133)
08-29-2022 4:02 PM
|
Reply to: Message 90 by Theodoric
08-29-2022 3:59 PM
|
|
Re: Welcome Back GDR
Are you implying that in order to be universal an idea has to be unanimously accepted?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by Theodoric, posted 08-29-2022 3:59 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 92 by Theodoric, posted 08-29-2022 4:05 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 105 of 3694 (897162)
08-30-2022 6:45 AM
|
Reply to: Message 98 by Percy
08-29-2022 5:09 PM
|
|
Re: Making It All Up
Percy writes: The authors of scripture made up the God they thought would empower them most. Upon reflecting on scripture, this hardly seems probable. The pen may well be mightier than the sword, but Jesus Himself told his disciples to put their swords away.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by Percy, posted 08-29-2022 5:09 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 119 of 3694 (897183)
08-30-2022 3:59 PM
|
Reply to: Message 118 by Stile
08-30-2022 3:32 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
I tend to believe that God helps those who ask. He does not simply help everybody.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 118 by Stile, posted 08-30-2022 3:32 PM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 120 by AZPaul3, posted 08-30-2022 4:01 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 121 by Stile, posted 08-30-2022 4:17 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 122 by Theodoric, posted 08-30-2022 6:36 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 123 by GDR, posted 08-31-2022 1:56 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 132 by ringo, posted 08-31-2022 11:52 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 124 of 3694 (897200)
08-31-2022 2:24 AM
|
Reply to: Message 120 by AZPaul3
08-30-2022 4:01 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
AZQuestions3 writes: What happened to his infinite love for his creation? The apologists explain it this way:
Is the God of the Old Testament Cruel? They list several reasons why not.
First, God waited 400 years before judging these nations, which reminds us that He is very long-suffering.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 120 by AZPaul3, posted 08-30-2022 4:01 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 149 of 3694 (897239)
08-31-2022 8:04 PM
|
Reply to: Message 126 by AZPaul3
08-31-2022 3:01 AM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
Context is everything. Why do you exist? What is the definition of a life well lived? Is it entirely up to the individual? Can an individual choose to be a rogue and steal pleasure at the expense of others and neglect long-term responsibilities? Again, the apologists explain it this way: (You may agree or disagree, but it is important to understand their argument)
Apologist writes: These nations had the light of creation and conscience, and they also had prophetic light. There were prophets in the region such as Melchizedek, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and his sons. The Canaanite nations could have repented like Nineveh did, and God would have forgiven them (Jonah 3:5-10). So how bad were those so-called reprobates?
These pagan nations were proud and bold in their sin (Isaiah 3:9). Following is a description of the horrible practices of the Canaanites of Joshua’s day. This is from “Killing the Canaanites,” Christian Research Journal, Vol. 35, No. 4, 2010. Idolatry. The Canaanites took seriously the testimony of the Old Testament witness of Yahweh and His revelation, if for no other reason than intentionally to transform the scriptural depiction of Yahweh into a castrated weakling who likes to play with His own excrement and urine (See Ulf Oldenburg, The Conflict between El and Ba‘al in Canaanite Religion, p. 172). ... Incest. Like all Ancient Near East (ANE) pantheons, the Canaanite pantheon was incestuous. Baal has sex with his mother Asherah (“El, Ashertu and the Storm-god,” trans. Albrecht Goetze, ed. James B. Pritchard, The Ancient Near East: Supplementary Texts and Pictures Relating to the Old Testament), his sister Anat, and his daughter Pidray (W. F. Albright, Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan), and none of this is presented pejoratively. ... In the larger ANE context, it is helpful to consider that in an Egyptian dream book dreams of having sex with your mother or your sister were considered good omens (Lise Manniche, Sexual Life in Ancient Egypt). Adultery. Canaanite religion, like that of all of the ANE, was a fertility religion that involved temple sex. Inanna/Ishtar, also known as the Queen of Heaven, “became the woman among the gods, patron of eroticism and sensuality, of conjugal love as well as adultery, of brides and prostitutes, transvestites and pederasts” (Gwendolyn Leick, Sex and Eroticism in Mesopotamian Literature). As University of Helsinki professor Martti Nissinen writes, “Sexual contact with a person whose whole life was devoted to the goddess was tantamount to union with the goddess herself” (Martti Nissinen, Homoeroticism in the Biblical World). The Canaanites even remake the God of the Bible, El, after their own image and portray Him ceremonially as having sex with two women (or goddesses). The ceremony ends with directions: “To be repeated five times by the company and the singers of the assembly.” About this John Gray comments, “We may well suppose that this activity of El was sacramentally experienced by the community in the sexual orgies of the fertility cult which the Hebrew prophets so vehemently denounced” (Gray, The Legacy of Canaan). Child sacrifice. Molech was a Canaanite underworld deity represented as an upright, bullheaded idol with a human body in whose belly a fire was stoked and in whose outstretched arms a child was placed that would be burned to death. The victims were not only infants; children as old as four were sacrificed (Shelby Brown, Late Carthaginian Child Sacrifice and Sacrificial Monuments in Their Mediterranean Context). Kleitarchos reported that “as the flame burning the child surrounded the body, the limbs would shrivel up and the mouth would appear to grin as if laughing, until it was shrunk enough to slip into the cauldron” (John Day, Molech: A God of Human Sacrifice, p. 87). Homosexuality. No ANE text condemns homosexuality. Additionally, some ANE manuscripts talk about “party-boys and festival people who changed their masculinity into femininity to make the people of Ishtar revere her” (Stephanie Dalley, “Erra and Ishum IV,” Myths from Mesopotamia, p. 305). Bestiality. Probably the ultimate sexual depravity is intercourse with animals. Hittite Laws: 199 states, “If anyone has intercourse with a pig or a dog, he shall die. If a man has intercourse with a horse or a mule, there is no punishment” (Harry A. Hoffner, Jr., “Incest, Sodomy and Bestiality in the Ancient Near East,” in Orient and Occident: Essays Presented to Cyrus H. Gordon on the Occasion of His Sixty-fifth Birthday). ... There should be no surprise that bestiality would occur among the Canaanites, since their gods practiced it. From the Canaanite epic poem “The Baal Cycle” we learn: “Mightiest Baal hears / He makes love with a heifer in the outback / A cow in the field of Death’s Realm. / He lies with her seventy times seven / Mounts eighty times eight / [She conceives and bears a boy” (Ugaritic Narrative Poetry, 1997, ed. Simon B. Parker). There were absolutely no prohibitions against bestiality in the rest of the ANE. In fact, in an Egyptian dream book it was a bad omen for a woman to dream about embracing her husband, but good things would happen if she dreamed of intercourse with a baboon, wolf, or he-goat (Lise Manniche, Sexual Life in Ancient Egypt, 1987). In short, their sexual fantasies involved everything that breathes. This explains why, in certain cities, Yahweh sentenced to death everything that breathes. If they had sex with just about every living thing they could get their hands on, and they did, then all had to die” (Clay Jones, “Killing the Canaanites,” Christian Research Journal, Vol. 35, No. 4, 2010). It is not morally wrong for a holy, lawgiving God to punish those who willfully, flagrantly, and unrepentantly break His laws and pollute and degrade human society. Men are quick to call for justice when they are offended, but they hypocritically criticize God for exercising justice against sinners. In other words, God basically set apart His chosen people (Israel) for a future mission as yet to be setermined. The reprobate nations had to be destroyed because they were polluting the innocence and purity of the chosen ones. Now before you get statrted, I know you will use Nazi Germany or even America herself in order to show that such an attitude towards other nations and practices is simply a prelude to nationalism and exclusivism, for example. Critics could even point to Russias invasion of the Ukraine as a similar excuse. So there are arguments both pro and con. Whichs gets back to the whole belief and concept of God Himself. You say that God is a monster hands down. I would argue that God, if God exists would be more in line with this apologetic defense:
“Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire” (Jude 1:7). Even in judgment, God is merciful. What He loves above all is mercy and what He is above all is a Saviour, but men must repent and turn to Him. That is His requirement, and the Creator has every right to set the rules! You likely will attempt to defend the behavior (any behavior) of others as a freewill exercised right. Consider, however, if there were a city of men (humans) who demanded to have sexual relations with your guests. Would they have that right? Now....I dunno much about Bestilaity, but it sounds quite undisciplined and unnatural. Are you going to argue that it all depends on the culture? That cows have rights too? "Its MY body, so mooooove over!"  And as for child sacrifice, thats downright evil no matter what culture you are from.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 126 by AZPaul3, posted 08-31-2022 3:01 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 158 by AZPaul3, posted 08-31-2022 11:02 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 165 by Percy, posted 09-01-2022 10:01 AM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 169 by ringo, posted 09-01-2022 12:16 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 151 of 3694 (897241)
08-31-2022 8:17 PM
|
Reply to: Message 148 by Theodoric
08-31-2022 7:54 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
All that you are basically saying is that claiming Christianity does not give a person or a people the moral high ground. I noted this quote in your Wiki reference:
Wiki writes: In a speech in the early years of his rule, Hitler declared himself "Not a Catholic, but a German Christian".[17][18][19][20][21] The German Christians were a Protestant group that supported Nazi Ideology.[22] Hitler and the Nazi party also promoted "nondenominational"[23] positive Christianity,[24] a movement that rejected most traditional Christian doctrines such as the divinity of Jesus, as well as Jewish elements such as the Old Testament.[25][26] In one widely quoted remark, he described Jesus as an "Aryan fighter" who struggled against "the power and pretensions of the corrupt Pharisees"[27] and Jewish materialism.[28] Hitler demonstrated a preference for Protestantism[29][page needed] and Lutheranism,[30] stating, "Through me the Evangelical Protestant Church could become the established church, as in England"[31] and that the "great reformer" Martin Luther[32] "has the merit of rising against the Pope and the Catholic Church".[33] The way I believe, rejecting Christ's divinity is a RED FLAG. You can't know God without knowing Jesus. And humans cannot imitate Jesus in their own power. Of course, I know you will accuse me of "preaching" and that I need to find and present an evidenced argument. So let's agree on something! How about personal responsibility and national responsibility for starters? Never mind wiping out others. Let's focus on our own behavior. I know you would agree with this.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 148 by Theodoric, posted 08-31-2022 7:54 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 156 of 3694 (897246)
08-31-2022 10:08 PM
|
Reply to: Message 154 by Theodoric
08-31-2022 9:52 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
Nonsense. Hitler was no atheist. He was a political Christian who did not believe in Jesus's divinity. Like so many other politicians, he used Christianity as a tool and understood little of it. He could care less. He had his own agenda anyway.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 154 by Theodoric, posted 08-31-2022 9:52 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 157 by Theodoric, posted 08-31-2022 10:16 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 159 of 3694 (897249)
09-01-2022 12:51 AM
|
Reply to: Message 158 by AZPaul3
08-31-2022 11:02 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
AZExcuses3 writes: Your god is a fake yet he continues to kill people by the boatload just on his influence as acculturated into you. It is evil, Phat. Evil as in needlessly painful, bloody and fatal for all humanity all over the world. You sustain that evil vehicle in this society, Phat. How hypocritical to not believe God exists and yet blame God instead of the humans who perpetrated the actions. I figured out why. If you placed the blame on humans, you would be as guilty as I or any other believer. What you are really attacking is the fact that we believe at all!
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 158 by AZPaul3, posted 08-31-2022 11:02 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 163 of 3694 (897254)
09-01-2022 7:48 AM
|
Reply to: Message 162 by Theodoric
09-01-2022 7:34 AM
|
|
Re: Phat still does not understand basics of argument
This is a Faith topic. I shall proudly and loudly proclaim my faith...what *you* label as delusions precisely because it is armchair quarterbacks such as you who insist that I lay it out as if it is scientific proof. It won't happen. Go back to your recliner.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 162 by Theodoric, posted 09-01-2022 7:34 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 164 by Theodoric, posted 09-01-2022 9:08 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 171 by ringo, posted 09-01-2022 12:31 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 188 of 3694 (897291)
09-01-2022 10:42 PM
|
Reply to: Message 170 by ringo
09-01-2022 12:20 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
And you can't know Jesus by rejecting everything the Bible says about Him. Everything? Do you exaggerate much? 
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by ringo, posted 09-01-2022 12:20 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 189 by Theodoric, posted 09-01-2022 11:10 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 194 by ringo, posted 09-02-2022 11:40 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 200 of 3694 (897308)
09-02-2022 3:12 PM
|
Reply to: Message 196 by ringo
09-02-2022 11:46 AM
|
|
Schooling God
ringo writes: Why would a god have to learn? You probably keep Him up at night. He can't fathom a created being--a creature of His trying to lecture Him on what His morality should be or how He should treat certain situations. He likely already had a plan, but you would try and correct Him, based on the human morality that evolution gave you. You might argue that you are simply fulfilling your responsibilities in life, but since you believe that He(God) was a human creation from the start, you would have no problem correcting the archetype. The apologists would explain that the reason God kills not only the men but the women and children is twofold. 1) He gave them over a hundred years to repent and change. 2) He foreknows that the cancer is incurable and that the children would end up growing into the same decadent monsters that their parents had become. As far as God giving His favorites a pass, keep in mind that the favorites (like King David) knew enough to repent before being judged. You likely would argue that true freewilled creatures should have the option to develop and behave any darn way they choose. Which necessitated a place to be made for them. I won't try and defend either Nazi Germany or modern-day America. They are responsible for themselves and whether they will choose to repent. Make no mistake though. There is a standard and God sets it. No consensus is capable of achieving this goal.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 196 by ringo, posted 09-02-2022 11:46 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 201 by nwr, posted 09-02-2022 3:35 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 202 by AZPaul3, posted 09-02-2022 4:10 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 255 by ringo, posted 09-04-2022 10:51 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 219 of 3694 (897348)
09-03-2022 1:13 PM
|
Reply to: Message 218 by GDR
09-03-2022 1:12 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
Now i'm really confused. Ive been following this exchange between you two.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 218 by GDR, posted 09-03-2022 1:12 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 237 by GDR, posted 09-03-2022 5:10 PM | | Phat has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 228 of 3694 (897360)
09-03-2022 3:54 PM
|
Reply to: Message 227 by GDR
09-03-2022 3:02 PM
|
|
Re: What does God want of Us
dwise1 writes: When theists, in general, do it, then the fault is more likely to lie in ethnocentrism and just plain not having thought it through.
GDR writes: It doesn't prove anything but I have thought it through a great deal. I think the resulting belief/conclusion is based on where one wants to be. Critical thinkers/willing atheists want to be freed from the whole God meme or belief concept. Theists, in contrast, want to have a higher power...albeit one friendly towards them.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 227 by GDR, posted 09-03-2022 3:02 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 230 by Tangle, posted 09-03-2022 4:13 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 242 by GDR, posted 09-03-2022 5:26 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 258 by ringo, posted 09-04-2022 11:11 AM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 259 by Percy, posted 09-04-2022 11:14 AM | | Phat has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2