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Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Separation of Church and State | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
They can't choose the way it is now.
So you're in favor of forcing children to be exposed in school to religions that their parent's might not approve of?
That is entirely different from choosing Jesus in your heart. IT must be a FREE choice.
Not the point. The point is freedom of religion, which is also freedom from religion, why should my tax dollars go to exposing my children to a religion that is a lie? Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Can you tell me how it pertains to education? To reach people with the gospel of Jesus Christ which an ordinary church meeting or event cannot.
Schools are NOT churches, and are NOT places to preach YOUR religion, no matter WHAT it is. Yes, it is, it is a place of learning. I am not against all religions coming to the schools and teaching.
So here you are, complaining about people "taking god out of school" etcetera, when it is YOU trying to IMPOSE it on others REGARDLESS of THEIR beliefs. You have a arrogant unmitigated gall if you want my personal opinion. /\
So you are blocked from instigating such an ILLEGAL and IMMORAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL imposition on PUBLIC schools, and YOU complain. I am not imposing any specific religion, and not forcing it on anyone. IT is perfectly fine to allow kids a choice. Why is it I have no problem letting my kids hear about atheism, or whatever. It's their choice, and they need to know about their choices, and not from some atheistic gay liberal teacher. If you don't like that then too bad. I have been there in the schools, and it seems other thoughts other than the ones I would like to have my kids follow, are being imposed on them. So which one os right RAZD?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
ore to the point, what have YOU - riVeRraT - done to educate the kids in your school about other religions: IT is not my job to teach kids about something I am not qualified to teach. IT is my job to allow it.
Or are you just another biased closed minded political activist christian hypocrite? Get a life, have you not learned anythign ahbout me yet?
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Jaderis Member (Idle past 3456 days) Posts: 622 From: NY,NY Joined: |
Out of respect for the 90% of the people in this country who helped build this country, who believe this to be true, we can leave it. IT doesn't say, you have to believe this to be part of our society, it's just the ten commandments, and part of our history. To many times people are trying to erase God from our history. Ya know, museums are a great place to display historical documents and artifacts. A courthouse is no place to display the ten commandments unless we actually use them as our laws and while there are laws against killing, stealing and some forms of lying those are not solely the property of Christianity, Judaism or Islam. The other commandments have no place in a courthouse unless we live in a theocracy and actually have laws against graven images, adultery or having other gods.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Ya know, museums are a great place to display historical documents and artifacts. And SOHO is a great place to meet gay people, so what?
A courthouse is no place to display the ten commandments unless we actually use them as our laws There are many things displayed on the walls of Justice in Washington DC that are not our laws.
The other commandments have no place in a courthouse unless we live in a theocracy and actually have laws against graven images, adultery or having other gods. The Left doesn’t want us to worship God and follow His commandments, but they would like us to worship the gods of ultra-tolerance on the graven altar of moral relativism. Are you afraid everyone will all of a sudden become Christian because the ten commandments are on the walls of the court houses, after being there for so long? A large majority of th enation, some 90% believe in the ten commandments, get over it. No one is forcing you to.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
The Left doesn’t want us to worship God and follow His commandments, but they would like us to worship the gods of ultra-tolerance on the graven altar of moral relativism.
That is false, and totally dishonest. The majority of those on the left are Christians. What they don't want, is to have the government dictate how you should worship. Now how about you stop these dishonest assertions.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What they don't want, is to have the government dictate how you should worship. By removing God from our society, and our history?
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
By removing God from our society, and our history?
Nobody is removing God from our society, or from our history. You have been listening to far too much right wing propoganda, and you have been believing it without checking.
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Jaderis Member (Idle past 3456 days) Posts: 622 From: NY,NY Joined: |
And SOHO is a great place to meet gay people, so what? Actually SOHO isn't a great place to meet gay people, but I am confused as to how this applies to what I said...
There are many things displayed on the walls of Justice in Washington DC that are not our laws I'm not sure which examples you are speaking of, but I suspect that they are documents from which we have derived our laws from. Like I said, the ten commandments mention a couple of things that are akin to laws that America imposes, but the rest are specific religious commandments that have nothing to do with our laws and therefore have no place in a courthouse.
The Left doesn’t want us to worship God and follow His commandments, but they would like us to worship the gods of ultra-tolerance on the graven altar of moral relativism. Funny...I didn't get that memo.
Are you afraid everyone will all of a sudden become Christian because the ten commandments are on the walls of the court houses, after being there for so long? I'm not afraid of anyone becoming Christian. That has no bearing on my life in and of itself. I just don't think that a religious text has any place in a court of law. You have every right to believe whatever you want to and so do I. Posting or not posting the ten commandments has no bearing on your faith, but it does constitute government establishment of religion. If you would argue and say it is just an historical document, why not display the Code of Hammurabi or Draco's codes or any other single set of laws from which we may have derived some of our laws from? Note that no other religious group is trying to erect a copy of their religious law in the courts. As for the last part of the sentence, who cares how long it has been there? If it is unconstitutional it has no place there no matter if it could take us 1000 years to realize that. Like many others have said on this thread, just because something was done in the past doesn't make it right.
A large majority of th enation, some 90% believe in the ten commandments, get over it. No one is forcing you to. Not yet...
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
You know, that is a rather strawman arguement. I know many liberal 'leftist' Christians. I know many liberal Jews. I know a few liberal muslims.
And I also know a few very conservative atheists. You are trying to equate the 'liberal' philosphy as 'godless', which is a lie. That is something you should be aware of.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I'm not sure which examples you are speaking of, but I suspect that they are documents from which we have derived our laws from. Like I said, the ten commandments mention a couple of things that are akin to laws that America imposes, but the rest are specific religious commandments that have nothing to do with our laws and therefore have no place in a courthouse. That pretty much sums it up. It's ok for those other things to be there, but not the commandments? Give me a break.
osting or not posting the ten commandments has no bearing on your faith, but it does constitute government establishment of religion That sentence is in total condradiction with itself. Listen, you don't see me fighting to remove Confucius, or Solon from the Supreme court building, even though they are in direct contradiction with the ten commandments. IT is what it is, and it is who and what we are. It is part of our history. I embrace all religions, and atheism. I don't think our governement is promoting any of it, if there is a statue of the ten commandments, or a statue of Tom Sawyer, or Santa Claus. We are not promoting religion when we have paid rabbis or paid preists and ministers. It is clear to me that I live in a country where my religion is a free choice, and a statue isn't going to change that. I don't think that Christian prayer specifically is what we need on schools, but a time for prayer in the morning, or like someone else said "a moment of silence" is a good thing. Also a fair chance at knowing about all the religions in school is fine with me also. The schools can have disclaimers and get away with it, why not? TV shows do it all the time. Too many kids come out of school knowing all the bad stuff about religion, but not the good stuff.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 447 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
The conservative athiests you know, wish to impose moral relativism on the country?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Can you tell me how it pertains to education?
To reach people with the gospel of Jesus Christ which an ordinary church meeting or event cannot. School is not the place to teach religion period end argument. That is your church and YOUR job to do. Allowing it in public school IS ESTABLISHING a religion.
Message 288ore to the point, what have YOU - riVeRraT - done to educate the kids in your school about other religions:
IT is not my job to teach kids about something I am not qualified to teach. IT is my job to allow it. Cop-out. YOU brought one religion into school and then wash your hands of providing the rest of the educational experience.
Or are you just another biased closed minded political activist christian hypocrite?
Get a life, have you not learned anythign ahbout me yet? I thought I had, which is why I am more appalled at this behavior from you than I would be from others. You have demonstrated yourself to be just another biased closed minded political activist christian hypocrite. You come on here crying about being SO restricted and SO put down in your kid's schools, when the truth is that YOU are trying to subvert the system, the truth is that YOU want to expose kids in public school to ONE and ONLY ONE religion, the truth is that YOU are trying to impose one religion on others. Get a life? I've got one, it is called american, where we have freedom for all different religious views from atheism to completely irrational fundyisms, but NO-ONE has the 'freedom' to impose their religious views on others. You want sunday school not public school. Enjoy. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added more rant we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
The conservative athiests you know, wish to impose moral relativism on the country?
In my experience, the people who are trying hardest to impose their relative morality on society are fundamentalist Christians.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Exactly. That is exactly how it is supposed to work. YOU teach YOUR children whatever stripe of religion you want.
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