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Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Separation of Church and State | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
The only "tyranny" is that you are not allowed to impose your faith on others, just as they are EQUALLY prevented from imposing theirs on you. The only "tyranny" is that you are not allowed to impose a tyranny of christianity on others, either in government, or in schools, or in public places. While I agree that no particular religion should be part of our government, the "tyranny" is when people try to take God out of our schools, and government completely.
quote: If you pray in school, you are not part of a religion. You can pray in the mannor of any religion, or choose not to pray, without fear. Because we are free. That is what freedom is about. That is what America is about. When we took prayer out of the schools, we made atheism a religion, and a national one at that.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
But anyway, what is this "religion of Atheism" you mention? Where do I go to worship? School. There are rules there regarding your religion, and that is no praying in the classroom.
Lastly, you do know that the Declaration of Independence isn't the same thing as the Constitution, don't you? Who cares?
Can you show where in the Constitution the Founders mention religion or God? You mean the same guys?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Or do you mean when they took out forced prayer Forced prayer? I have 2 kids in school right now. You have to see the look on the teachers faces if I even hint at mentioning the word God. It's a fucking joke.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What is taken out of school is the promotion of religion in school BY THE GOVERNMENT. I guess you missed what I said. But what was takin out of school was God.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Tell, me, though, coz I'm kind of confused...why do they still give kids time off at Christmas and Easter if they are all being indoctrinated into Atheism? For the last ten years I have been going to my kids concerts around the holidays. The selections of songs did not include anything that even pertains to religion, angels or God. It's ok to sing about Santa, but not God. This last year, somehow the kids sang Hallelujah, for the last song. The prinicipal was sweating bullets. But to his surprise, the crowd roared at the end, like no other time before in the last ten years.It was just awesome, there was a unified feeling of, dare I say, fuck the fact that they took prayer out of school. Can you show me a textbook of the tenets of Atheism that public school children are taught? It's an underground cult, you know that. I am not sure on what you can say, but I know what you can't say. Anyone who looks to take God out of nation is part of that cult. I am not saying that all atheists are this way. But most are, and they are forcing their Godless view on the rest of the nation. They fight for separation of church and state for all the wrong reasons, but make it appear they are fighting for the right reasons. The Godless liberal judges grant them their wishes. Listen everyone, stop all your jumping up and down. I live out here in the real world, and I can see clearly what the effect of taking prayer out of school has done. dare to mention God, in a positive way, in school now, and you will see. I am not going to get into a back and forth bullshit conversation about it. IT is what it is. The governement or this nation was never intended to be Godless. That surely wasn't a goal of our founding fathers, period. The Declaration is a clear indication of that. The consititution is the second indication that they never intended for us to be Godless. If they wanted us to be Godless, then they would have never mentioned a separation of church and state. The only thing a separation of church and state means, is that our governement would not run any particular religion, and religion would not run our government. It was meant so that we could escape the "tyranny" of British Kings who forced you to believe a certain way. A line from the declaration of Indenpence:
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world. I will leave you with a quote from my original reply in Message 225 and I will remain steadfast on that quote.
quote: Exposing the lies, one truth at a time!
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
The bible does not say that God is, or is not omnipresent. But it is clear what happened to certain nations who were Godless.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Just wondering, during that court case, did they put their left hand on a bible, and swear to tell the truth?
Message 225
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
2. In light of your answer to question 1, what specific requirements can we, as God-fearing people, enact to put God back into this nation? Stop taking Him out.
3. What specific things have these radical Atheists forced you to do that you would consider "Godless"? Have you read the story about my kids school? Is one example.Not only are they trying to take God out of country, they are trying to take Christ, ou tof Christmas. MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos Things also like trying to remove the ten commandments from the walls of the court houses, when the ten commandments are clearly part of our history, and have little to do with representing one particular religion. The ten commandments represent several different religions, so the government would not be a church just for displaying these commandments.
4. Could you list the particular "wrong reasons" that you know about? To take the word God out of the national anthem, no matter when it was added, is a wrong reason. The word God, does not refer to any particular religion, and can mean the Jewish God, the Muslim God, Natures God, or a Christian one. From reading the declaration of Independence, we are a nation under God. Now if it said one nation under Yahweh, then it would be wrong. A separation of church and state does not mean "no God". It means that the governement cannot tell us how to believe in God, not that God doesn't exist.
6. Could you provide us with a list of the "right reasons" to fight for separation of church and state? Read the declaration of Independence.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Don't presume to think that your anecdotal experiences are the norm and that your opponents couldn't possibly have had any differing experiences. I don't assume anything, I am telling you what happened. I was involved with getting "The Power Team" in our local area. The Power Team is a ministry that preaches the gospel. They go to local schools across the nation. They have been in about 20,000 of them. They are never allowed to mention the word God. They have to teach Christian principals without saying the word Christ or God.Schools | The Power Team 2.0 The principal of the elementary and middle schools around here both concurred this. I live in the greater NYC area, many Godless liberal abound. We seem to leading the country in these types of Godless ideas. Maybe this doesn't happen as much where you live.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You realize that yah'weh is jewish (or is it hebrew?) for the wrod God? Yes, I do realize that. Do you realize that the Jewish God, and the Christian one, are the same God? When you use the word God, it can mean any god. Whatever god you want it to be. No-one is being forced into believing in any one god, or into believing in God period, just by saying one nation under God.90% of Americans believe in God, and the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence believed in God. So what is the problem with having God in our nation? The problem would be if there was only one religion, and that religion was controlled by the governement, and we were all forced to believe it. That to me is th ereason why we need a separation of church and state. I find no problem with our government sponsoring religious events, or holidays, or allowing time for prayer in schools. It doesn't have to be religion specific.Jane can pray to her God Billy can pray to his God, and Spot doesn't have to pray, cause he don't believe. So he can do some yoga or something, whatever. On Christmas, we should be singing songs about Christ.On Hanukkah we can sing about dreidels, etc. But on national atheist day, we won't do a thing, because it doesn't exist, or does any kind of atheistic religion.
So it's alright to have "god" in the pledge, but not not "yahweh", even htough they mean hte exact same thing? Not to everyone they don't.
Why not post it everywhere? Or do you just focus on posting jewish biblical laws? The golden rule is the sum of the commandments. I am not Jewish.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
They're lucky that they've been allowed to do that much. Using public funds to bring in "a ministry that preaches the gospel" seems to me to be a pretty clear violation of the seperation of church and state. If you read the link, you would know that it is funded by local busnisess. THere is no reason why the schools can't bring all of the religions in and let them teach a little something about themselfs, so that our youth can learn about the different religions, and not be raised in a Godless enviroment. Theology is a course in school, is it not?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You said it would be wrong to have Yahweh in the pledge, but God is alright, even though the two words mean the exact same thing They do not mean the exact same thing. There is 365 names for God, in the Christian faith, Yahweh is but one of them.
There is no problem with having God in the nation. The problem is when you mix politics with religion, and religion with politics. Take a look at the dark ages to begin with. Then look at France and England. Point is, religion and politics should stay separate. Or, you could just read the Declaration of Independence, and you get a clear picture of why it should be separated. But, our government should not be Godless, and our religion should not be governmentless. One should not run the other, thats all.
Use the constitution, the ultimate law of the US. Separation of church and state, not God and state.
The Declaration isn't even law, and has no legal standing in our country. The only thing it was used for was to tell Britain--"up yours, you sticking pieces of shit". It says that and more. It was a precurser for the constitution. It says who we are, and why. It is a Declaration. And if it has no legal standing, then a whole bunch of Americans died for nothing, trying to defend it.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You seem to be under the impression that religion was removed from schools When did I ever say religion was removed from schools?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Is it a voluntary activity? Can the students choose to not be exposed to this ministry? That is a good question. They can choose not to believe.
But if you're having a school assembly (like what would happpen if there was an anti-smoking group) to expose all the kids to this ministry then you're using public funds for the promotion of a religion. Not promotion, education of. The school can stand there and say, we are not promoting this, we are just showing what it is. Choosing to follow Jesus is a free choice, and would never be forced on anyone.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What it doesn't say is who we are as a nation regarding God. That is absolutely what it says. That is a blatant lie.It says who we are a s a nation, and why. It says what we stand for, what we fight for, and why. If you don't want to accpet that God is part of our nation, and our founding fathers, that is your freedom. Does a godless gov't make the people godless? Yes, it does. We elect our government.
But how can that be, if yahweh is but another name for god, as you claim? Because it is religion specific. You must understand something about me. I go to church, I am a leader in my church, but I really hate religion. Religion and God are 2 different things. Our nation should not be religion specific, but we should also not be Godless. We should also be allowed to be atheist (if there is such a thing). But atheism is not what we as a mjority stand for, or was it the intentions of our founding fathers. We escaped religious persecution, not God.
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