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Author Topic:   Biblical Tall Tales
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 124 of 302 (274870)
01-01-2006 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by idontlikeforms
01-01-2006 11:42 PM


yeah right
If I'm not mistaken there is
So the one you like is the one you are even less familiar with?
You haven't done the work you claim to have done, you don't know what the actual masoreh even are, and you have no concept of the text-tradition which constitutes the version you claim to favor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by idontlikeforms, posted 01-01-2006 11:42 PM idontlikeforms has replied

Replies to this message:
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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 144 of 302 (274900)
01-02-2006 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by idontlikeforms
01-02-2006 1:25 AM


more Giants less talk
genre
So "history" in the same sense as George Washington and the cherry tree then? and Geoffrey of Monmouth? Because I think that will get us back to the Giants, which are the good part of this thread.
Paul Bunyans of the Bible anyone?
Oh, here's a nice bit from Daniel
3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. 3:2 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up. 3:3 Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages, 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. 3:7 Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
3:8 Wherefore at that time certain Chaldeans came near, and accused the Jews.

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 244 of 302 (275196)
01-02-2006 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by idontlikeforms
01-02-2006 11:31 PM


dude where's my Giants
preserved original
Which though? the preserved or the original? or the mythical Septuagint? This year's critical text or next year's? Nestle-Aland or Westcott&Hort? The closest approximation of the autographs some reefer-addled old commie in evangelical bible college can think of today, or the actual text-type that was close-copied and charmed to burn other books up?
You can't have the original and you won't accept the preserved, what are you?

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 255 of 302 (275538)
01-03-2006 11:11 PM


there were Giants in those days?
This has been fun, but you guys know the cubit isn't an exact measurement right? it's half an arm. If they had shorter arms then, it would be less modern inches.
Let's say people nowadays are getting up toward 6 feet tall, whereas they were running about 5. So then 5/6 = 15 inches, a (hand) span is only 5 inches instead of 6, and Goliath comes out 7 foot 11.
Classical acromegaly too, there's a commonplace in the text that matches the case descriptions (Why did he have his helmet open? He can't see so good.)
* typo
This message has been edited by Iblis, 01-04-2006 12:08 AM

Replies to this message:
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 Message 257 by arachnophilia, posted 01-04-2006 1:13 AM Iblis has replied

Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 258 of 302 (275597)
01-04-2006 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Nuggin
01-04-2006 12:54 AM


Re: there were Giants in those days?
NCBI/eutils102 - WWW Error 404 Diagnostic
Koch and Tiwisina (1959) reviewed 8 examples of affected persons in 2 successive generations, including 4 instances of father and 1 or more sons affected. Some reported instances of familial acromegaly may in fact be pachydermoperiostosis (167100), acromegaloid-cutis verticis gyrata-leukoma syndrome (102100), or cerebral gigantism (117550). Furthermore, familial acromegaly can be a partial expression of the multiple endocrine adenomatosis syndrome, specifically multiple endocrine neoplasia type I (MEN1; 131100). Pituitary growth hormone-secreting tumors occur also as part of McCune-Albright syndrome (174800) due to mutations in the GNAS1 gene. Levin et al. (1974) reported the cases of 2 brothers with acromegaly confirmed by elevated GH levels. Both had acanthosis nigricans and pituitary tumors. Pestell et al. (1989) described a family in which 5 members over 3 generations had isolated functional pituitary adenomas. In 4 cases this was associated with acromegaly, and in the fifth galactorrhea from prolactin excess was the presenting feature. The tumors were histologically of either atypical mixed cell or undifferentiated cell type. No parent-child transmission was observed. The 5 individuals were related as uncle and nephew or uncle and niece or as second cousins. There were no consanguineous marriages in the family. Autosomal dominant inheritance with reduced penetrance was proposed. Pestell et al. (1989) considered the disorder in this family to be distinct from MEN1. Jones et al. (1984), Abbassioun et al. (1986), and McCarthy et al. (1990) also reported cases of familial acromegaly. 30 MEDLINE Neighbors
Nothing about polydactyls though, isn't that supposed to signify a vestigial twin?
This message has been edited by Iblis, 01-04-2006 01:20 AM

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 259 of 302 (275598)
01-04-2006 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by arachnophilia
01-04-2006 1:13 AM


Re: there were Giants in those days?
a different kind of change
I think you're right! (and I really admire your jedp response on a different thread.)
I think Origen couldn't believe 9 foot 6 himself and as usual searched for a "wild text" that would suit his ideas. The scroll from Qumran is a sample of that text, but doesn't match the "LXX" (Origen's 5th Column) in many other ways.
But I could be wrong? Doesn't matter a lot really.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by arachnophilia, posted 01-04-2006 1:13 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3926 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 261 of 302 (275606)
01-04-2006 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by arachnophilia
01-04-2006 2:06 AM


there were Giants in these days too
You've got it right, the LXX favors 4 cubits, one of the dead sea scrolls favors 4 cubits, the other texts say 6.
I believe that the disagreement can better be explained by the fact that the "LXX" by the 4th century consisted specifically of those readings that disagreed with the targums Onkelos (Aquila) and Jonathan (Theodotian) and the further Judaizers like Symmachus.
I also suspect that the anecdotes relating to Goliath and the Gath family indicate acromegaly or a related pituitary disease that could produce heights greater than 7 feet and various other afflictions; and that the cubit like its descendant the yard has increased by about 20% due to the increase in the average length of the arms used to set the standard.
But if you want you can have your 4 cubits, let's make them babylonian 20 inch cubits though

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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