Summations Only

Dredge, there was a Simon in Rome, but it wasn't Simon
Peter; it was Simon Magus, the magician.Numerous ecclesiastical writers of the 2nd Century give
info negating Peter as Bishop of Rome. The majority of
scholars admit this. The exception are Conservatives
Catholics.Peter being in Rome was not promulgated until the 4th
Century.Paul was never under Peter. In fact, Paul confronted
Peter to his face in Gal. 2:11-14.Paul confronted Peter for pulling away from the Gentiles
when certain others Jews would show up.Once again, Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles-the
uncircumcised. Peter was the Apostles to the Jews-
the circumcised. Ephesians 2:7-8.The Church was built upon Christ. He was the chief
cornerstone and it's very foundation. It is not the church
of Peter. It is the church of God.Peter never died for anyone. His blood was no different
than that of any other man.Matthew 23:9 "And call no man your father upon the
earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."Jesus was not telling His followers not to call their
biological dad father. He was telling them not to call
a religious leader "father."

Dredge, some, especially the RCC, use certain Bible
verses to show that they have power to forgive sin.For example, John 20:23 "Whose soever sins ye remit,
They are remitted unto them; and whose soever sin ye
retain, they are retained."This can be a difficult verse to understand. But we must
keep some in mind.Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am He that blots out thy
transgressions for my own sake, and will not remember
thy sins."Mark 2:7 "...who can forgive sin but God only."1John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and
just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness."Several Bible translations have it worded a bit
differently.For example: "Whatever you forbid on earth must be
what is already forbidden in heaven.""Whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in
heaven.""Whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in
heaven."The Apostles were full of the Holy Spirit. The spirit led
life is led by judgement from God.We know that the Apostles led Spirit filled lives. However,
they did not have authority to change God's laws.One example of what this verse means is found in 1 Cor.
51-6. Paul told the church at Corinth that a man who
was indulging in immoral sexuality with his mother-in-
law should be removed from the church. He was causing
dissention in the church.In 2Cor. 2:6-7 Paul advised the church at Corinth that they
ought to forgive him. The man's punishment had brought
him much sorrow. The man had received forgiveness from
God after repenting.Paul, led by the Spirit, was instructed by God that the
man had bee forgiven.Paul did not have the authority to forgive the man. But
God let Paul know that the man had been forgiven.The Apostles were responsible for the churches they
started.

Dredge, Paul states in 2 Timothy 1:11 "Whereunto I am
appointed a preacher, and an Apostle, and a teacher to
The Gentiles."Once again the Bible states the Paul was sent to the
Gentiles.Romans 15:16 "That I should be the minister of Jesus
Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God,
that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable,
being sanctified by the Holy Spirit."In 56-56 AD, the church at Rome had not been
established. Paul's states this very clearly in Romans
1:11. Paul tells them that he would like to impart unto
them some spiritual gift that they may be established.The RCC would have us believe that it was started 10 or
11 years earlier under the reign of Claudius.Paul states in Romans 15:20 that he would not build
upon another man's foundation. He would not preach
where Christ had already been named.If Peter had indeed started the church at Rome ten
years earlier, this would have been an insult to Peter.
In fact, it would have been a major insult.In the 16th Chapter of Romans, Paul greeted 28 people,
but Peter is never mentioned. This would have been at
least a decade since the RCC claims that Peter was the
first pope.

Dredge, around 45-46 AD, the Apostle Peter was thrown
into prison in Jerusalem. You can read about this in
Acts 12:3-4.It was in Antioch, around 51 AD, that Paul confronted
Peter to his face. Paul confronted Peter for refusing to
sit and eat with the Gentiles.Imagine that! The so-called Bishop of Rome would not
eat with the Gentiles.1 Peter 5:13 states that (around 65-66 AD) Peter was in
Babylon among the Jews. At that time there were as many
Jews in Mesopotamia as there were in Palestine.Remember, Peter was an Apostle for the circumcised.The Bible clearly shows that Peter was not in Rome.Who are you going to believe?

Dredge, "given the keys of the kingdom" does not mean
what the RCC says it mean.In Isaiah 22:22 we read where Eliakim (priest) was given
The key to the house of David.Speaking of Eliakim, David stated "so he shall open, and
none shall shut; and He shall shut, and none shall open.Eliakim would not let anyone into David's house that he
(King David) did not want in his house.Neither could Peter, nor any of the Apostles, allow anyone
access to the Kingdom of God without His approval.God is not obligated to bind that which, or those who, are
ungodly.The Apostles were led by the Spirit of God. They had the
key (knowledge) of how to get into the kingdom. Their
job was to spread this knowledge.Peter was not the only Apostle with the key. In Matthew
18:19, Jesus used the "second plural form of you, which
Is "ye" to show that all the Apostles had the key to the
Kingdom.Spirit led pastors today are allowed to tell a repentant
sinner that their sins have been forgiven by God.Paul states in 2 Thess. 3:14 that the Church is not
obligated to keep company with an unrepentant sinner.
He states that "he (the sinner) may be ashamed.What Jesus said in a nut shell is that the Apostles and
Spirit led pastors of His church have the authority to
represent Him.In Matthew 16:19; 18:18; and, John 20:23 the actions are
called "future perfect passives." God had already
determined what is good and acceptable. The Apostles
were not given authority to change God's laws.They were merely given authority to represent Him and
His laws. Never were they given authority to change His
laws.Matthew makes in clear in 7:24-25 that Christ is the Rock
The the Church is built on, not Peter.So does Ephesians 2:20 and 1 Corinthians 10:4.

Dredge, you are bound and determined that Peter is the
head of God's Church. You are hung up on one ambigious
verse.You throw away major portions of the Bible in order to
stick with what you have been led to believe.Acts 12:3-4 clearly states that in around 45 AD Peter was
in prison.In 49 AD Peter was at the Jerusalem Council. Acts 15.In Antioch in 51 AD, Peter was in Antioch, where Paul
confronted him to his face. Why did Paul confront Peter?
Paul confronted him for not sitting and eating with the
Gentiles when other Jews were around.This in no way sounds like someone who would move
among the Gentiles and start a church.Peter writes that in 66 AD that he was in Babylon. There
were as many Jews in Mesopotamia at that time than
there were in Palestine.Many scholars insist that Peter's writings have a definite
Aramaic tinge. The type of Aramaic spoken in Babylon.Once again Peter was an Apostle to the Jews. Paul was
the Apostle to the Gentiles.The Bible clearly proves that Peter was not in Rome.It is not good when someone puts their faith in men who
can change Biblical laws with the drop of hat.They then have the wherewithal to make a follower
believe almost anything.Christ states that He is the head of the church; no one else.Christ also states the church is His bride and He the
bridegroom. He never says a mortal man is the
bridegroom.

Dredge, notice John's prophecy in Rev. 17:3 where he
saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of
names of blasphemy.A woman is used as a symbol of a church. In this case
an apostate church.This apostate church is the same as the second beast in
Rev. 13.The beast that she rides is the first beast in Rev. 13.This great false church is ruled by Satan. His counterfeit
religion had already began setting down roots during the
days of the Apostles. Paul and John specifically warned
Christ's followers not to be deceived by her lawlessness.This church practiced some aspects of Christianity, just
enough to call itself ChristianThis false church has possessed much power during the
course of her existence, even political power.This church from its beginning has had concourse with
emperors, presidents, kings, and rulers from around the
world. It has strong influence on the majority of nations
and cultures, including politics.In Rev. 17:5 John states "And upon her forehead was a
name written MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE
MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE
EARTH."This mother church has daughter churches that came out
of her in protest.However, they still practice and defend a
good number of her abominations.This church practices a mystery religion, with many of
her doctrines dating to ancient Babylon at the time of
Nimrod and Semiramis, the founders of the Babylonish
mystery religion.This great false church is pictured as being drunk with
the blood of the saints.Both this harlot and the beast that she rides have
persecuted and killed many ot those who remained
faithful to God's laws.This universal church has adopted practices from pagan
religions and label them as Christian.

Dredge, notice John's prophecy in Rev. 17:3 where he
saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of
names of blasphemy.A woman is used as a symbol of a church. In this case
an apostate church.This apostate church is the same as the second beast in
Rev. 13.The beast that she rides is the first beast in Rev. 13.This great false church is ruled by Satan. His counterfeit
religion had already began setting down roots during the
days of the Apostles. Paul and John specifically warned
Christ's followers not to be deceived by her lawlessness.This church practiced some aspects of Christianity, just
enough to call itself ChristianThis false church has possessed much power during the
course of her existence, even political power.This church from its beginning has had concourse with
emperors, presidents, kings, and rulers from around the
world. It has strong influence on the majority of nations
and cultures, including politics.In Rev. 17:5 John states "And upon her forehead was a
name written MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE
MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE
EARTH."This mother church has daughter churches that came out
of her in protest.However, they still practice and defend a
good number of her abominations.This church practices a mystery religion, with many of
her doctrines dating to ancient Babylon at the time of
Nimrod and Semiramis, the founders of the Babylonish
mystery religion.This great false church is pictured as being drunk with
the blood of the saints.Both this harlot and the beast that she rides have
persecuted and killed many ot those who remained
faithful to God's laws.This universal church has adopted practices from pagan
religions and label them as Christian.

Dredge, when Jesus said "and upon this rock I will build
my church," what in the world makes you think that He
was talking about Peter?When speaking about Peter "rock" is from Petros.
Petros is simply "a piece of the rock."Rock, when referring to Jesus, is from Petra. Petra
refers to "a mass of Rock" or "boulder."The Word that Jesus used for the "Rock" that He would
build His house upon is "Petra."You can look this up yourself. And, I wonder why you
have not already done so.Jesus could have simply touched His finger to His chest
when He said "upon this Rock I will build my church."However, there was no need for Him to have done so.
He used the word "Petra."Peter was anything but a rock. Peter was brash,
impulsive, and strong-willed.Peter swore that he would stand by Jesus and never
deny Him.Yet, he did deny Him. And he cursed and swore at those
who said he was one of Jesus' disciple.Peter showed fear and cowardice. The denial of Jesus
was shameful.Peter was impulsive when he asked Jesus to allow him
to walk on water. He never thought it through, and when
fear struck he began to sink.When Jesus described His upcoming death, Peter said
that it would never happen.Jesus answered by saying "get behind me Satan, you
are an offense to me. Peter relied on human reasoning
and not the will of God.In other words, Peter spoke in opposition to God's plan.In the end Peter became a rock-solid member of the
body of Christ. And Acts shows that he became a mighty
preacher.He became a great teacher of humility, hope, and love.However, he was a part of the body of Christ, just like
the other Apostles. The other Apostles were also rock-
solid followers of Christ.Peter and the other Apostles were all pieces of the rock
that helped to make up the foundation of the church.But, Jesus was the Chief-cornerstone. He was the Rock
that the foundation rested upon.

Dredge, when Jesus said "upon this Rock I will build my
church" HE was referring to himself.Jesus said upon Petra (which the NT uses when speaking
of Jesus, and Jesus only) I will build my church.What Jesus did not say in this verse:He did not say upon Petros (which refers to Peter) I will
build my church.He did not say upon Peter I will build my church.He did not say upon you I will build my church.He did not say that upon Petra He would build Peter's
church.He did not say that upon Petros He would build Peter's
Church.Peter became the chief Apostle. But, the church was not
built on him.The church was built upon Petra, not Petros.

Dredge, Peter was petros-a piece of the rock. Jesus
only is Petra. Jesus clearly stated that Petra was who
He would build His house on.Matthew 16 is clearly about Jesus being the Christ, the
Son of the living God. It's focus is on featuring the truths
about Jesus.The RCC wants to make Peter the focal point of
Matthew 16.The RCC has theoretically tried to make Peter the rock.
The rest of the NT declares that Christ is the rock.The RCC's view is not the patristic view of the first few
centuries. Historically, the assertion that the Church was
built on Peter began several centuries after Peter's death.Even if Peter were the rock that the Church was built on,
which He clearly isn't, how would that necessitate papal
succession?Jesus is the Rock of ages; the Rock of salvation; the
Rock od deliverance.Peter was merely a small rock built atop the bedrock of
someone much bigger than himself.

Tangle, every thing that you wrote is true, or moving in
that direction.But, the Holy Bible recorded the same prophecies
centuries ago. You are merely asserting, an truthfully I
might add, what the Bible says is a great falling away.I could cite dozens of examples where the Holy Bible
states this, but here are just a few.2 Thessolonians 2:3
2 Timothy 3:entire chapter
Matthew 24:Satan's deception becomes so great that even God's
elect could be deceived if God did not keep them
focused. Matthew 24:24.

Dredge, I know where the true Church is. But, I am nor
trying to recruit anyone to it.God will recruit whom He will.I suggest that anyone seeking God to seek Him with all
their heart. That they pray to Him and Him only.Be like the Bereans; they searched the scriptures daily to
see if what they were hearing was Biblically true.

Tangle, you will never hear me say that I fear anything.I love God. And, I agree with His purpose. I also agree
with the method He's employing to bring it to fruition.It is impossible to have God in one's life and still be
governed by fear. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Dredge, who gave the RCC the authority to replace God's
7th Day Sabbath with Sunday?Who gave the RCC the authority to abolish the 2nd
Commandment?The 2nd Commandment states:"Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or
any likeness of any thing that is in the heaven above, or
that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under
the earth:""Thou shall not bow down thyself to them, nor serve
them:..."The RCC is filled to the brim with statues and idol. The
RCC bows down to these idols.The RCC also worships relics (bones and bone fragments).
How is this different than, say, voodoo?