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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 378 of 1864 (849037)
02-21-2019 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by honda33
01-13-2007 10:04 PM


John 1:1 tells us that there was a point when only two Beings existed. One of these is identified as the Word. The Word was both with God (Theos) and God.
Theos (like Elohim in Gen. 1) is a word much like church, group, or committee. Christ has one church, but the one church has many members.
There is one God (Theos), but at the present time Theos consists of only two Beings.
Even though both have existed from eternity, the Being we now know as the Father is greater of the two. He is also the undisputed leader.
The Word created everything that is in existence. It was none other than He. Yet, their ultimate goal has been carefully planned out to the last little detail.
God (Both) wants a family; a family of God Beings. The Word, as Jesus, took on a different role. He was to become the first (this clearly shows there will be others) begotten Son of God After the resurrection Jesus became the first born Son of God (showing there will be others.
The Holy Spirit as a person is a lie. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. Nowhere are we told that receiving eternal life is dependant on this belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by honda33, posted 01-13-2007 10:04 PM honda33 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 387 of 1864 (849096)
02-24-2019 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by Phat
02-24-2019 6:03 AM


Re: About the Holy Spirit. (question)
In John 14, 15, & 16 we see where the Holy Spirit is called He. In this case He is the pronoun of Comforter. The prevailing logic is since Comforter is synonym for the Holy Spirit, and He is the pronoun for Comforter, that the Holy Spirit must be a person.
The Greek language, like Spanish and several others, assign gender to their pronouns. The actual gender is oftentimes not relevant. In one language (I don't recall which) the pronoun for bicycle is feminine. Therefore, it would be correct to say I rode my bicycle. I rode her alll day.
Now who would believe that the bicycle is a female?
The FACT is that the gender for Comforter is masculine; therefore, the pronoun for Comforter will be masculine.
Comfort describes what the Holy Spirit does, not what it is.
The Holy Spirit (Hagios--sacred or consecrated & Pneuma--current of air, breath, or breeze) is the "power" of God. It radiates from both the Father and the Son.
The Holy Spirit is how Jesus stated with confidence in John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." Jesus says in verse 21 that through the power of the Holy Spirit that He (Jesus) will manifest Himself to us.
Anyone who does not understand that the Father and Son are two distinct beings need to take reading comprehension courses. The Holy Bible tells us time and time again that one is the Father and the other is the Son (two).
If the Holy Spirit were a person who would He be? The cousin, or uncle perhaps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Phat, posted 02-24-2019 6:03 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Phat, posted 02-24-2019 2:49 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 389 by ringo, posted 02-24-2019 3:07 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 390 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-24-2019 4:38 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 392 of 1864 (849111)
02-25-2019 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by LamarkNewAge
02-24-2019 4:38 PM


Re: Semitic gender of the "Holy Spirit". (question)
Spirit (pneuma) is neuter in gender. This is why in Romans 8:16,26 that the Spirit (pneuma) is called "lt."
16. "The Spirit itself bears witness with our Spirit that we are the children of God."
Just as our Spirit is not another person, neither is the Spirit of God another person.
W/o the human Spirit we would be no different than animals. We would not be capable of abstract thought, nor would we be capable of having a r/s with God.
"Word" in John 1 is from Logos. Jesus is the Spokesman for the God family. He is the Being who spoke and said "Let there be light." And, "Let us (more than one) make man in our (more than one) image after our likeness.
The Logos spoke with all the prophets and apostles. He is the only member of the God family who has met and spoke with humans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-24-2019 4:38 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 393 of 1864 (849112)
02-25-2019 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Phat
02-24-2019 2:49 PM


Re: About the Holy Spirit. (question)
Exactly! There is one God, not three. There is one Theos comprised of two Beings. People close their minds to this; yet, they will believe in some kind of psychotic god with three personalities.
Paul, in all his Epistles, sent salutations from both the Father and the Son. Why no mention of the Holy Spirit? Didn't Paul get the memo that the Holy Spirit is also a person?
When the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit was another being living inside all of them? How is it possible for one person to live inside millions at the same time?
The Holy Spirit is our earnest (down payment) of our inheritance, which is to be born into the family of God.
Luke 1:35 states that the Holy Spirit shall come upon Mary and the "power" of the Highest shall impregnate her. Here the Holy Spirit is called exactly what it is
If the Holy Spirit were a person, He would be the Father of Jesus. Do people actually believe that God the Father adopted Jesus from the Holy Spirit?
Sounds stupid doesn't it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Phat, posted 02-24-2019 2:49 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Phat, posted 02-25-2019 9:07 AM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 395 of 1864 (849124)
02-25-2019 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by Phat
02-25-2019 9:07 AM


Re: Discussing God In Familiar Terms
I am a member of the United Church of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Phat, posted 02-25-2019 9:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 396 of 1864 (849140)
02-25-2019 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Phat
02-25-2019 9:07 AM


Re: Discussing God In Familiar Terms
I don't want anyone to think that I do not realize the importance of the Holy Spirit. I u/s full well Romans 8:9 "...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
Only those who are led by God's Spirit have access to eternal life.
Verse 16: "For as many as ate led by the Spirit of God, they are sons of God.
Since we are to become sons of God (in fact, God Beings ourselves) righteous character is absolutely necessary.
To be a true Christian is perhaps the most difficult task ever undertaken.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Phat, posted 02-25-2019 9:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 511 of 1864 (898956)
10-04-2022 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 474 by Phat
06-28-2021 12:58 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat, the verses containing the very earliest recorded
history are John 1:1-2.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God."
"The same was in the beginning with God."
The Word, who later became Jesus (verse 14), has
existed from the beginning.
The Word was with God (accompanied by another
person).
The Word was God.
There is no way around this. There are two persons,
and both of them are God.
There are, and always have been, two persons who
make up the God family.
Humans have the potential to become members of
the God family
In Genesis1:26 the Word said "Let us (used by speaker
to refer to Himself and one or more other person)
make man in our image, after our likeness....
One God, but two distinct persons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Phat, posted 06-28-2021 12:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 512 by nwr, posted 10-04-2022 3:10 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 513 by ringo, posted 10-04-2022 10:24 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 10-05-2022 2:09 AM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 515 of 1864 (898977)
10-05-2022 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Phat
10-05-2022 2:09 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat, you ask what happened to the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was asked numerous times what must one do to
be saved. Not once did He say that one must believe in
the trinity, or that one must believe that the Holy Spirit is
a person.
Spirit is derived from the Greek word Pneuma. It is where
we get terms such as pneumonia or pneumatic tire.
Pneuma can have several meanings, but refers to breath,
exhalation, or current of air.
Luke calls the Holy Spirit the "power" of the Highest. The
Holy Spirit was the power that impregnated Mary. But,
the Holy Spirit was not the Father of Jesus, which it
would have been if it were a person.
Jesus and the Father are oftentimes compared to human
Beings. The Holy Spirit is not. The Holy Spirit has never
been seen in hu.an form.
The Holy Spirit is often described as wind, fire, water, oil,
dove,...etc.
The Holy Spirit can be quenched or poured out. Humans
can drink of it, partake of it, or be filled with it.
Paul states that the Holy Spirit is our "earnest," or down
payment.
In all of Paul's letters he mentioned greetings from the
Father and Jesus. Not once did he mention greetings
from the Hy Spirit, which would have been inexcusable
if the Holy Spirit was part of a trinity.
I want to say much more about this, but I will have to do
it in several posts throughout the next couple of days.
Just hear me out before you dismiss me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 10-05-2022 2:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


(1)
Message 539 of 1864 (899077)
10-08-2022 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by Phat
10-06-2022 12:24 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat, the trinity in its present form came to us by the
counterfeit and universal church.
300 of the 318 delegates at Nicaea (325 AD) were
intimidated into voting in favor of the trinity.
Anyone not supporting belief in the trinity was declared
a heretic, and subject to exile and/or death.
The Pope was on an equal footing with the Emperor in
the Holy Roman Empire. In many instances the Pope
held more power than the Emperor.
Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs. These so-called holy men
in robes had dissenters burned and tortured. Oftentimes
they would bind a person and stake one of his legs to a
fire until the individual would recant any and all beliefs
contrary to the church's views.
The universal Church strictly forbad it subjects from
owning Bibles. They also refused the Bible to be written
in any language except Latin.
I realize that the Catholic Church claim that the Apostle
Peter was the first pope. However, Peter was not the
Apostle sent to the Gentiles; Paul was.
Neither the OT nor the NT defines the Holy Spirit as a
person.
How could ancient Israel believe in the trinity when they
rejected Christ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Phat, posted 10-06-2022 12:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by Dredge, posted 10-08-2022 6:47 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 545 of 1864 (899118)
10-08-2022 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 518 by dwise1
10-05-2022 7:12 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Dwise 1, you seem to think that God did not know that
there would be all these different denominations and
religions.
You seem to think that God is trying with all His might to
convert humanity during this present age.
Why do you think this?
The truth is that you have no idea why God allows
human suffering?
You try to rely on philosophy, but in this situation
philosophy is worthless.
Those who don't understand what God is doing can
and will become very angry with Him. In fact, they
can grow to hate Him. He understands this, but He
will not deviate from His plan.
In their philosophical world they believe they are right
in condemning God. They never seem to understand
that if their premises are wrong that their conclusions
will be wrong.
1 Cor. 2:11 " For what man knows the things of a man,
save the Spirit of man which is in him? Even so the
things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
Humans have a spirit in us, but it is not another person.
Neither is the Spirit of God another person.
Our spirit can can fellowship with God's Holy Spirit. This
is why humans can create and accomplish marvelous
feats that others animals can't.
With our human spirit we can think and dreams of other
places, but we are limited.
God has a body. He has a face, hands, etc... He is in one
place, but His Holy Spirit is everywhere in the universe.
There is no place where His Holy Spirit is not at.
God can act through His Holy Spirit at any place and any
time.
Through His Holy Spirit God is omnipotent, omnipresent,
and omniscient.
If the Holy Spirit were a person then he would require a
Spirit in order to be everywhere at the same time.
The Holy Spirit is not an impersonal force. It contains the
minds of both the Father and the Son.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by dwise1, posted 10-05-2022 7:12 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 547 of 1864 (899129)
10-08-2022 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Dredge
10-08-2022 6:47 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Dredge, it doesn't take a good deal of effort to look into
the history of the Catholic Church. I suggest that you
read all you can about it.
Simon Magus (the sorcerer), was the sorcerer in Acts
who tried to buy to buy the power of the Holy Spirit.
Several historians record that he went to Rome and
performed miracles that garnered him much fame.
His miracles were performed with demonic assistance.
Simon the Sorcerer began a religion that developed, with
the assistance of Satan, into Catholicism.
The RCC is perhaps the most evil and vile organization
on earth.
The members of the RCC are deceived. God will, after the
second resurrection, open their eyes to His truths. They
will then be offered their first true opportunity to become
members of the God family.
The Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops know that they are in
league with Satan and his demons. They have sold
themselves to Satan for power and prestige.
There no longer remains a sacrifice for them. They will
be resurrected just long enough to be sentenced to the
second death, which is permanent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Dredge, posted 10-08-2022 6:47 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by Dredge, posted 10-08-2022 8:47 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 549 of 1864 (899151)
10-09-2022 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 548 by Dredge
10-08-2022 8:47 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Dredge, the RCC has numerous daughter churches
that still keep many of her man-made traditions.
Even though these daughter churches insist
they are not now, nor were they ever, associated
with the RCC, they have adopted many of her
doctrines. Doctrines that are not supported by
the Holy Bible.
Among these doctrines are:
Sunday worship. Sunday is the mark of both
the Roman Empire and its image, the RCC.
Immortality of the soul.
Eternal suffering in hell fire.
Going to heaven as our reward.
The trinity.
And there are many more that contradict clear
Biblical teaching.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Dredge, posted 10-08-2022 8:47 PM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 550 by nwr, posted 10-09-2022 10:15 AM candle2 has replied
 Message 553 by ringo, posted 10-09-2022 2:20 PM candle2 has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 551 of 1864 (899155)
10-09-2022 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 550 by nwr
10-09-2022 10:15 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
NWR, they are clear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by nwr, posted 10-09-2022 10:15 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 554 of 1864 (899159)
10-09-2022 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by ringo
10-09-2022 2:20 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Ringo, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist. I have never
attended one SDA meeting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by ringo, posted 10-09-2022 2:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by ringo, posted 10-09-2022 3:02 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 561 by Dredge, posted 10-09-2022 5:20 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 892
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 556 of 1864 (899161)
10-09-2022 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 555 by ringo
10-09-2022 3:02 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
You are right Ringo; I am against any practice that is
not Biblical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by ringo, posted 10-09-2022 3:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by ringo, posted 10-09-2022 3:24 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 560 by Dredge, posted 10-09-2022 5:16 PM candle2 has replied

  
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