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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 525 of 1864 (899021)
10-06-2022 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 524 by dwise1
10-06-2022 1:59 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
dwise1 writes:
relying on the Holy Spirit to lead Christians into the proper interpretation of Scripture led to there being about 45,000 different Christian denominations and sects because of differences in interpretation.
The Holy Spirit doesn't work through individuals ... he works through the Church - the one, true Church - ie, the Catholic Church. Therefore there is only one "proper interpretation of Scripture" - the Catholic interpretation.
That explains why outside the Holy Spirit-guided Catholic Church there exists - unsurprisingly - a chaotic and confusing mess of interpretations.
Differences that shouldn't exist if the Holy Spirit had done its job, which it obviously didn't!
​Incorrect. The Holy Spirit has certainly "done its job" ... infallibly, in fact, through the Catholic Church.
When Christians who operate outside the Catholic Church interpret Scripture, they do so without the infallible guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is why they come up with endless errors and conflicting opinions ... resulting in 45,000 different denominations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by dwise1, posted 10-06-2022 1:59 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by ringo, posted 10-06-2022 10:20 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 529 by Phat, posted 10-07-2022 4:03 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 531 by Tangle, posted 10-07-2022 4:09 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 527 of 1864 (899028)
10-07-2022 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by ringo
10-06-2022 10:20 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
ringo writes:
A cynic might even wonder why an infallible Holy Spirit would appoint so many child molesters to lofty positions in the Church.
... in which case that cynic would not understand that he is conflating two very different and separate things.
1. The Holy Spirit guarantees to provide infallible interpretations of Scripture through the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.
2. The Holy Spirit does not override the free will of any human being nor prevent anyone from choosing to sin ... regardless of their position in the Church.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by ringo, posted 10-06-2022 10:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by ringo, posted 10-07-2022 11:39 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 538 of 1864 (899058)
10-07-2022 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Phat
10-07-2022 4:03 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat writes:
I'm one of the 45,000 who disagree. And I don't even go to church that much. But I will confidently say that the Roman Catholic Church has no monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
The first mistake non-Catholic Christians (nCCs) make is believing that the Bible is the primary source of Christian knowledge and the "pillar and foundation of the truth" ... but it isn't - the CHURCH is (1Tim 3:15). The Bible came from the Church, not vice-versa.
The second mistake nCCs make is believing that the guidance of the Holy Spirit enables every individual Christian to correctly interpret Scripture and thus determine correct and full doctrine. This is nonsense ... clearly evidenced by the fact there exists an almost infinite number of different and conflicting interpretations of Scripture outside the Catholic Church. If the HS were guiding each and every nCC, they would all be expressing exactly the same interpretations ... but they don't.
Furthermore, it strikes me as really odd that - despite claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit - no nCCs has enough confidence in themselves or the Holy Spirit to declare that their personal interpretation of Scripture is infallibly correct. Ask them who has the infallible interpretation of Scripture and they can't tell you ... so much for the guidance of the Holy Spirit!
Jesus said the HS "will guide you into all the truth" (John 16:13), but nCCs don't know what "all the truth" is bcoz they don't know anyone who has "all the truth"!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Phat, posted 10-07-2022 4:03 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 10-08-2022 12:47 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 543 by AZPaul3, posted 10-08-2022 2:14 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 544 of 1864 (899106)
10-08-2022 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Phat
10-08-2022 12:47 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Phat writes:
I'm assuming that nCCs=non Catholic Christians
No need to assume ... I made that obvious in the previous post when I wrote, "non-Catholic Christians (nCCs)"
And why would I believe that only the Pope is privy to having the Holy Spirit?
I don't know. I'm not aware of anyone who believes that.
Or do you suggest that Cardinals can get Spooktacular results too? 
The Holy Spirit is at work in every Christian, but in a special way in the bishops of the Church, and in a more special way still in the bishop of Rome, the Pope (who holds the "keys of the kingdom of heaven" - Matt 16:19).
The Holy Spirit works through the Pope and the bishops to ensure that the Church's teachings are infallibly correct and are faithfully passed on to each generation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Phat, posted 10-08-2022 12:47 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 546 of 1864 (899124)
10-08-2022 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 539 by candle2
10-08-2022 10:22 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis
candle2 writes:
300 of the 318 delegates at Nicaea (325 AD) were
intimidated into voting in favor of the trinity.
Hilarious. Protestant myths are so entertaining.
The universal Church strictly forbad it subjects from owning Bibles. They also refused the Bible to be written in any language except Latin.
... and for good reason. Once the masses got hold of the Bible, any ignoramus or idiot could read it and invent erroneous and heretical doctrines, stupidly claiming to be "led by the Holy Spirit".
That's why there now exist 46,000 fake churches, all teaching fake Christianity based on fake doctrines based on fake interpretations of the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 539 by candle2, posted 10-08-2022 10:22 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by candle2, posted 10-08-2022 7:41 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 548 of 1864 (899130)
10-08-2022 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by candle2
10-08-2022 7:41 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
candle2 writes:
The RCC is perhaps the most evil and vile organization
on earth ...

The Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops know that they are in
league with Satan and his demons. They have sold
themselves to Satan for power and prestige.
Thanx for the laughs.
Which demented fake-church do you belong to? Are you a Calvinist, by any chance?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by candle2, posted 10-08-2022 7:41 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 549 by candle2, posted 10-09-2022 9:34 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 559 of 1864 (899168)
10-09-2022 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by candle2
10-09-2022 4:04 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
candle2 writes:
They state correctly that the NT does not support Sunday worship.
Where does the Catholic Encyclopedia or Catholic Church say that? A citation, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by candle2, posted 10-09-2022 4:04 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 582 by candle2, posted 10-12-2022 1:40 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 560 of 1864 (899169)
10-09-2022 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 556 by candle2
10-09-2022 3:19 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
candle2 writes:
You are right Ringo; I am against any practice that is
not Biblical.
Is your interpretation of the Bible infallibly correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by candle2, posted 10-09-2022 3:19 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 659 by candle2, posted 10-18-2022 4:43 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 561 of 1864 (899170)
10-09-2022 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 554 by candle2
10-09-2022 2:44 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
So what "church" do you belong to? Or are you your own "church" because you are infallibly led by the Holy Spirit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 554 by candle2, posted 10-09-2022 2:44 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 565 of 1864 (899225)
10-10-2022 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by candle2
10-09-2022 4:04 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
candle2 writes:
They state correctly that the NT does not support Sunday worship.
This Catholic article contradicts your claim:
What the Early Church Believed: Sabbath or Sunday? | Catholic Answers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by candle2, posted 10-09-2022 4:04 PM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 566 by Phat, posted 10-11-2022 10:25 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 572 by ringo, posted 10-11-2022 1:31 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 577 of 1864 (899310)
10-11-2022 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 575 by dwise1
10-11-2022 4:05 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
Why reject belief in God on account of the Bible? You could reject the God of the Bible and still believe in God ... even a Creator God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 575 by dwise1, posted 10-11-2022 4:05 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 578 by dwise1, posted 10-11-2022 8:23 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 579 of 1864 (899326)
10-11-2022 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 578 by dwise1
10-11-2022 8:23 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis
You said "I became an atheist [i][b]by reading the Bible[/i][/b]". But now you're saying something different ... it's not the Bible that turned you into an atheist - you're an atheist bcoz you can't believe in any God in any way, shape or form.
You should have said that in the first place.
It's never been about any rejection of a particular god (you theists do that all the time) or even gods in general (that next step you don't take), but rather it's about rejection of religion and religious dogma. 
Nope, I don't buy that. You could reject all religions and religious dogma and still believe in God. In fact, that was my position for many years, until I returned to the Catholic faith.
Atheists may cite different reasons for not believing in God, but the bottom-line is they become atheists simply because they don't want to believe that there is a God.
Here's how it goes:
If you want to believe in God, you'll find a way.
If you don't want to believe in God, you'll find a way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 578 by dwise1, posted 10-11-2022 8:23 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 580 by dwise1, posted 10-12-2022 12:58 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 581 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2022 11:48 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 585 by ringo, posted 10-12-2022 3:53 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 601 of 1864 (899446)
10-13-2022 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by Theodoric
10-13-2022 5:53 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Spoken like a true atheist.
I wonder what evidence would satisfy someone who wants to never believe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2022 5:53 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 602 by Theodoric, posted 10-13-2022 9:24 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 608 of 1864 (899490)
10-15-2022 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 607 by Porkncheese
10-15-2022 6:13 AM


Re: How can Jesus be God if...
Porkncheese writes:
And then you can throw in a 4th deity when you see Catholics worshiping Mary as well.
I never seen any Catholic worship Mary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Porkncheese, posted 10-15-2022 6:13 AM Porkncheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by ringo, posted 10-15-2022 11:57 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 613 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2022 12:08 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 643 by Porkncheese, posted 10-16-2022 6:14 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2852
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 628 of 1864 (899527)
10-15-2022 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by AZPaul3
10-15-2022 4:59 PM


Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
AZPaul3 writes:
we do have crystal balls. They are called museums, universities and like that. Loaded with millions of fossils and lots of people way smarter than you we get to look into the past
Fossils offer us only a very limited understanding of the past. For starters, they offer only peroidic snapshots of what happened ... they don't tell us what happened between the snapshots, which could be millions of years apart.
Furthermore, the hypothesis that one fossil represents the evolutionary ancestor/descendant of another fossil cannot be tested.
Even if it could be proven that Fossil A is the evolutionary ancestor of Fossil B, they tell us nothing about how B evolved from A.
Science can use fossils in arriving at the best scientific explanation for what happened in the past, but that doesn't mean that explanation is an accurate representation of the truth. No one can prove anything, so it all boils down to believing what you want to believe.
Atheists (which includes most evolutionary scientists) religiously believe and preach the Darwinist version of history and think the god of science has all the answers ... which is bs-fantasy bcoz it's impossible for anyone to know what really happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2022 4:59 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by ringo, posted 10-15-2022 9:25 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 632 by AZPaul3, posted 10-15-2022 10:47 PM Dredge has replied

  
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