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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6325 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 35 of 1864 (389879)
03-16-2007 12:04 PM


Remember, when Jesus was being baptized by John the Baptist, the Father's voice was heard to say; "this is my Son". Also present was the Holy Spirit. See Matthew 3:16-17
The Father, The Son, and The Holly Spirit all together as One...as Jesus said many times... "I and my Father are one" John 10:30
The plurality of God is is also demonstrated in Genesis 1:26 where Jehovah says; "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness."
Genesis 11:7, "let US go down, and there confound their language."
It's obvious God is not talking to angels here
Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (1John 5:8~12)
And take a look of the old Testament, which Quar'an says demands you to belieave :
"..For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne ... from that time on and forever."
Isaiah chapter 9-5
Isaiah is talking about Mighty God
Jesus fulfilled over 350 prophecies about Himself. Of these, over 105 it would be impossible for anyone else in history to fulfill
You can understand the Triunity of God as many examples in Nature....because...as you know...God made all...He is the creator :
There is 3 states of water : solid , liquid, and gaseous ... but all of them still water, and the water natural state is liquid...The father is the natural state of God's nature...but it manifests in the son and the Holly Spirit....because they are one : the water/God
Our universe itself is a three in one trinity.
1. Space. Infinite. Relates to the Father.
2. Mass. Visible. Relates to the Son.
3. Time. Animates the universe. Relates to the Holy Spirit.
Time is a three in one entity.
1. Future. Relates to the Father, the planner and the plan.
2. Present. The only visible manifestation of time. Relates to the Son.
3. Past. We should learn a lot from it. What would we know without it? Relates to our teacher, the Holy Spirit.
The electricity power :
1. Potential. (volts) Can't be seen or felt until there is a path for current flow, but the power is available. Relates to the Father.
2. Path or load. (ohms) The power becomes manifest, or visible, whether it is the movement of a needle or digits on a meter, or the electric appliances in our home. Relates to the Son.
3. Current. (amps) Electricity in action. Relates to the Holy Spirit.
The light :
Light is light, right? Yes, but it has three characteristics that relate directly to the Trinity.
1. Actinic. The quality of light that is neither seen nor felt but makes the plants grow. Relates to the Father.
2. Luminiferious. The quality that can be seen and felt. Relates to the Son.
3. Calorific. The quality that cannot be seen, but can be felt. Relates to the Holy Spirit.
Now we can start to see what God's Word means when it says we are created in the "image of God". Man is a triune being also:
1. Soul. Neither seen nor felt, but contains our databank that makes us who we are. Relates to the Father.
2. Body. Our manifestation. You can see it and feel it. Relates to the Son.
3. Spirit. You can neither see nor feel our spirit, just like God's Spirit.
=====
It is the only way that the bible makes sense as one, i.e., the only way that all pieces are assembled together as ONE...the OLD testament and the NEW...as the revelation from God to mankind
Also it makes sense If we just understand God as :
God is an awesome, infinite, loving Spirit and light. God is incapable of lying or sinning....He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow
Because of His infinite nature of Justice and perfection, He doesn't tolerate the sin...no human could reach God or see His face, but because He is also infinite in love.....He sent us his own child who has no sins and all the God justice came upon His shoulders....and because of His pain and dead...all mankind was absolved....He has paid all our sins...for us
Because that infinite justice, His infinite nature, a sin against a infinite God...requires a infinite repair...therefore...all mankind would be condemned to Hell.....therefore He gave His son...to pay and repair all mandkind sins....so all can be saved...
Because Jesus is One with the Father....so He is infinite ... no sins...and His slaughter/sacrifice in the Cross was a infinite sacrifice to all Humanity and fulfilled ALL INFINITE justice of God - a perfect sacrifice from a perfect God
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. (1 Jn 4:9-10)
But it is a mistery...so I end with this :
Can a dog understand the nature of the human-being ?!
No
either the Human-being can understand the infinite nature of God
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 12:56 PM Delta has replied

  
Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6325 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 42 of 1864 (389918)
03-16-2007 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
03-16-2007 12:56 PM


Ringo wrote :
======
Hi, Delta. Welcome to EvC.
(There's no need to post the same thing in two threads. We'll find ya. )
I'm pretty sure my comments would be off-topic in the other thread, so I'll try my luck here:
=========
Sorry, I'm new in this forum, I made a mistake, and neither I know how to right quote your message
=============================
But when Jesus was challenged by the Jews, He said:
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
==========
This is true
But read the whole psalm 81 versicle's
81:1. A psalm for Asaph. God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods.
And then, see what Jesus has to say :
Matthew 5:48, "Be ye therefore Perfect, even as YOUR Father which is in heaven is Perfect."
As He seemed to say : Be gods ... "perfects like God"
and more, listen to the bible and the same John Gospel :
"Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." - Joh 17,3
And Romans 3,30 :
"For it is one God, that justifieth circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith."
And much...much...much others versicles..
I remember you this very important versicle :
(Genesis 1,26)
And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness (...)
Look you in the mirror....what do you see ?! an image of you...but that image doesn't make You...it is just like you, that's is...your image onto "other dimension"
If there is a God...and if there is a God's word to mankind...
then :
His word must not abrogate Jew's ancestral belief, i.e., the Torah. The Gospels can't deny the Torah...
Neither must Koran disbelieve Jew's Torah or the Gospels, because Mohamed has born centuries later, it must not deny either the Torah or The Gospels...
Those who denies is a fake, because
There must be NO CONTRADICTIONS or GOD's abrogations of His own words
The bible, the revelation to mankind must be understood as ONE...as Jesus is ONE with the father...and Holy Spirit
============
Almost anything can be described in a threefold manner. You could talk about the Trinity of Cats: the Eyes, Ears and Whiskers. You could talk about the Trinity of Ice Cream: Chocolate, Vanilla and Stawberry.
That doesn't mean it inherently has a threefold nature.
============
Yes, that's true
But...What makes you to be YOU ?
Your hears ? your whisker or beard ? or is your body ... and that strange things like thoughts,contemplations, and cogitations, and dreams ?
Your body is asleep but your mind dreams, Why ?! nobody does know
====
By your logic, then, God can only assume that we don't understand Him.
====
Yes
How can we understand infinity of a entity-Being ? the eternity ?
What is eternity ? living forever ? do you imagine praying all over minute by minute...hour by hour...day by day ?
Isn't that monotonous ? a Hell monotonous paradise ?
Nobody knows How paradise looks like, How God truly is
we just are allowed to know that there is full of joy and happiness, but....nobody knows How it looks like...unlike Hell, but even about this terrible place we just have a cloudy view/notions
Nobody can tell you what is the Truth, but you must find it by your own....
If you believe in God, of course....pray to Him....open your hart...and He should answer all the questions...the Holy Spirit Himself...as Jesus said He Should ... the comforter..
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 12:56 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 6:14 PM Delta has replied

  
Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6325 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 44 of 1864 (389925)
03-16-2007 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
03-16-2007 6:14 PM


Ringo writes:
Let's go slowly: How do references to multiple gods indicate a trinity?
well, if you say multiple...you deny Torah, the new testament,i.e., the Holy Bible...
because you just can't deny all of this versicles ( and much others ) :
(Malachi 2,10)
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why then doth every one of us despise his brother, violating the covenant of our fathers?
(Mark 12,29)
And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
(Mark 12,32)
And the scribe said to him: Well, Master, thou hast said in truth, that there is one God, and there is no other besides him.
(Romans 3,30)
For it is one God, that justifieth circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(1 Corinthians 8,6)
Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(Ephesians 4,6)
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
(1 Timothy 2,5)
For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
(James 2,19)
Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.
(Psalms 110-1)
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
=======
But look closely to (Mark 12,29) and (1 Corinthians 8,6) and
(Psalms 110-1)
The Word LORD...
but look closely to other...there is ONLY ONE LORD ... (Mark 12,29) ... "the Lord thy God is one God"....
Is there another ?! no ...see here :
(Mark 12,32)
And the scribe said to him: Well, Master, thou hast said in truth, that there is one God, and there is no other besides him.
=====
Only Trinity...only a triune God make sense...
The bible must not abnegate itself or wouldn't be God's word
And the only way it doesn't is : God's triune nature
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 6:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 7:09 PM Delta has replied

  
Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6325 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 46 of 1864 (389931)
03-16-2007 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by ringo
03-16-2007 7:09 PM


=======
Not at all. The Torah has plenty of references to multiple gods:
quote:Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?
quote:Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
quote:Exo 22:28 Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.
=======
Yes....the Torah...when it was written ... was there any Christians or Muslims in the world ? or was only tribes and kingdoms with many gods like Romans and Greeks ?!
The Jews were the only that had a single God, but even so...sometimes they worshiped minor gods like Baal
======
What I'm asking is, why does it "make sense"?
Why is the magic number three? Why not eleven?
======
Because in new testament Jesus said many times : Father...Himself and the Holy Spirit....and not more
You would not find more gods or entities to pray
Just see the baptism sacrament
=====
The Bible has lots and lots and lots and lots of abnegations. We have a whole Bible Accuracy and Inerrancy forum for that.
=====
Didn't read that yet....I'm new in here....
As you said : let's go slowly ... if you want to... of course
====
It must be man's word about God - and man's understanding of God is imperfect. So man makes up ideas like The Trinity that "make sense" to him.
======
That's true..."man's understanding of God is imperfect"
Real True
As I said in my first post :
Can a dog understand the nature of the human-being ? no...because it is musch less than human...much...much...much more ......but it has some kind of intelligence...doesn't it ?
You just can't figure the nature of God...just by reading the bible, you just can't understand
You can't read the bible alone without the assistance of the Holy Spirit, why ?! because of this versicles :
Joh 14-26 "But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
What a invisible being shall teach ?
Well, this issue "the conforter that will be send" is the main link to Muslims believe of Mohamed last prophet...which makes all of this more complex to understand...doesn't it ?!
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 7:09 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 7:59 PM Delta has replied
 Message 49 by ReverendDG, posted 03-16-2007 8:34 PM Delta has not replied

  
Delta
Junior Member (Idle past 6325 days)
Posts: 7
Joined: 03-16-2007


Message 50 of 1864 (389945)
03-16-2007 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ringo
03-16-2007 7:59 PM


====
Well, you brought up the Torah. I only pointed out that it does, in fact, refer to multiple gods.
=====
There was always multiple gods in this world, even today
How many people worship money or power ?
At that time of Torah was written...there was many gods around Israel, such as Baal
But Torah always said that there was only a tru God....just read above
====
Does the New Testament say there are only the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Does it say there are no others or does it just not mention any others?
Does it say that those three are also one?
======
It mentions other human gods, of course, mainly in Torah ...as I said...there was many between tribes and cultures and kingdoms ...
in fact each kingdom had is own group of gods...and I mean A GROUP....there was many
=======
That's what I'm saying: If you can't understand the nature of God, how can you say His nature is triune?
=======
Because He can't deny or abrogate the bible, because He is the same yesterday...today..and tomorrow
But the mankind, yes...it changes...it is not the same has it was 2000 years before...or 3000 or 4000 years....
But even now we have multiple gods
====
What do Muslims think of the Trinity?
====
Well :
they don't believe the bible or torah
they don't believe on Jesus dead on cross
they don't believe many things
It is just a natural path to unbelievers on Holy Spirit, and triunity
The bible and triunity must make sense from Alpha to Omega, and also make sense into mankind History
If you see the Bible... there is :
- old testament : as it was the plan of Father to mankind
- new testament : the manifestation of Father's plan in the Son
- book of revelation : the Holy Spirit revealing/teaching all that is to come
Yes...Apocalypse was always understood as a book apart .. the last one...the revelation as earlier Christians called it
Didn't Jesus said that the "comforter" would reveal/teach everything that was left ?
Reveal...Book of Revelation...the end of story...the end of the bible by the Holy Spirit
For me all makes sense, well, for a Catholic point of view...as I truly believe that it is the real religion of God
Well...and because of the end of the bible...therefore the whole revelation from God to mankind as finished...are we living the last days ?
Yes we are....but :
Psalms 89,4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are as yesterday, which is past. And as a watch in the night"
1000 years for us is like a night for God...just nothing
Maybe He gave a week to mankind ... who knows ?!
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.
Edited by Delta, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 7:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 03-16-2007 8:51 PM Delta has not replied

  
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