Summations Only

AZ, everybody knows of Moby Dick.

Dredge, Jesus allowed those who understood who He
was to worship Him. While in His human body He did
not demand worship. This was not the reason that He
came to earth.Jesus forgave sin, which is blasphemy for anyone other
than a member of the God family to do.There is coming a time when every knee will bow down
to Him. There will be no exceptions.Satan did everything in his power to get Jesus to sin.
But, he finally realized that it wasn't going to happen.Satan knew the scriptures. He clearly understood that
Jesus was to live a sinless life and then He was to be
put to death for our sins.This presented him with a paradox of monumental
proportions. He would cause Christ to be sentenced to
death, which would be exactly what was required of Him.However, Satan, with His enormous influence would see
that the method of execution was crucifixion.Crucifixion was exceedingly painful and drawn out. The
condemned would be scourged by experts. Lictors
were adept at bringing the condemned to the point of death
before stopping.Before flogging the condemned would be stripped of all
clothing and his hands were tied to an upright post.Lictors made use of a short whip of braided leather with
thongs of various lengths.Attached to the ends of each thong were objects such as
small iron balls; sharp pieces of bones; and, other objects
used to bruise and tear flesh. He was missing flesh from
His back; buttocks; legs; and, ribs.But, before the flogging the Pharisees had hit him so
many times in the face that it was marred beyond
human likeness.Jesus was like other men in that He did not want to go
through this. He prayed to His Father asking if this cup
could pass from Him.The realization of what He was about to endure caused
Him to sweat great drops mingled with blood
(Hematohidrosis).Jesus prayed constantly to His Father, seeking His
strength.Satan's final ploy was to get Jesus to back out of His
plans. And, Jesus did ask His Father if there was
another way.Satan stirred the High preists and everyone else against
Jesus. They mocked Him; they ridiculed Him; and,
they spat on Him.I admire Jesus with all my heart. He paid a high price to
redeem us. And, it was the ultimate act of love.

Dredge, Jesus is the member of the God family who
gave His life as a ransom for us. It was not the Father.The penalty for sin is death. Jesus paid this price.Therefore, there is no other name that can save us. It is
impossible to have a relationship with the Father without
going through the Son.The two have always existed. Both of them are God. They
make up the family of God, which one day can number
into the billions.The Father is the greater of the two, and He is the
undisputed leader.But, without Jesus's death to pay for our sins we would
remain dead for all eternity.This verse (Acts 4:12) is in no way confusing, nor is it
contradictory.

AZ, "The Passion of the Christ" did not go nearly enough
to portray the horrors that Jesus endured.And you got it right, He is my God.

Phat, Lucifer was the "light bearer." Jesus did not create
him as as evil entity. Vanity is what drove him to think that
he was more important than he actually was. It happened
over a period of time. Angels were created with free will.David, in Psalms 51:11, implored God not to take His
Holy Spirit from him.If the Holy Spirit is a distinct person, with its own mind,
personality, and consciousness, why wouldn't David have
simply asked him not to leave?Luke 11:13 is clear that the Father gives the Holy Spirit
to those who ask for it. Do you know what this means?It means that the Holy Spirit is not a person that comes
of its own conscious will. It is something that is given.Peter did not express disapproval when Simon Magus
referred to the Holy Spirit as "power." Simon attempted
to purchase this power. Acts 8:18-20.In all Paul's epistles he sent greetings/solutions from
the Father and Jesus Christ but never from the Holy Spirit.We humans have a human spirit in us, but it is not another
person; neither is God's Spirit another person.Christians are encouraged to increase the Holy Spirit
dwelling in us. If the Holy Spirit is a a person, how do we
increase the amount of him dwelling in us?Either he is in us or not. There is no way to increase or
decrease the amount of a person dwelling in us.

Phat, Lucifer was the "light bearer." Jesus did not create
him as as evil entity. Vanity is what drove him to think that
he was more important than he actually was. It happened
over a period of time. Angels were created with free will.David, in Psalms 51:11, implored God not to take His
Holy Spirit from him.If the Holy Spirit is a distinct person, with its own mind,
personality, and consciousness, why wouldn't David have
simply asked him not to leave?Luke 11:13 is clear that the Father gives the Holy Spirit
to those who ask for it. Do you know what this means?It means that the Holy Spirit is not a person that comes
of its own conscious will. It is something that is given.Peter did not express disapproval when Simon Magus
referred to the Holy Spirit as "power." Simon attempted
to purchase this power. Acts 8:18-20.In all Paul's epistles he sent greetings/solutions from
the Father and Jesus Christ but never from the Holy Spirit.We humans have a human spirit in us, but it is not another
person; neither is God's Spirit another person.Christians are encouraged to increase the Holy Spirit
dwelling in us. If the Holy Spirit is a a person, how do we
increase the amount of him dwelling in us?Either he is in us or not. There is no way to increase or
decrease the amount of a person dwelling in us.

Phat, with the Holy Spirit dwelling inside us we can
become one with Jesus and the Father. The Father
and Son are of the same mind and accord; so are those
who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.Why are there no mention of the Holy Spirit in the
following verses?John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."John 14:20 "At that day you shall know that I am in my
Father, and you in Me, and I in you"John 10:38 ..."that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."John 17:11 "And now I am no more in the world, but
these are in the world, and I come to you. Holy Father
keep through Your own name those whom You have
given Me, that they may be one, as We are."John 17:21 "that they may be one, as You, Father, are in
Me, and I in You, that they also be one in Us..."There is no mention of the trinity in these verses. Not
one single mention of the Holy Spirit.How are Christians reconciled-become one-apart from
the Holy Spirit?Why no mention of the Holy Spirit when it is claimed that
he is the only one of the three persons in us?Sorry about the double post of my last message. I have
a couple of kittens climbing all over me.

Phat, when God calls an individual He does not stop
there. Through the Holy Spirit God begins to fashion and
mold His character into them.Notice Isaiah 64:8 "O Lord, You are the Father; we are the
clay, and You our potter; and we all are the work of Your
Hand."It is a shame, but most people do not understand that
God actively works within those He has called.Those called by God are to increase in understanding.
They are to grow in both knowledge and grace. They are
being trained for a great purpose.Hebrews 2:11 "For both He that sanctifies (Jesus) and
they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause
He is not ashamed to call them brethren."There will be no difference between Jesus and His
younger siblings, except that He will have greater
authority.We will be of the God kind.So many churches/denomination dismiss the simplicity
that is in Jesus Christ. They accept the dogma of the
trinity in various concepts.The trinity limits God. It defines Him as being indefinable.
A three in one being rather than a family that can expand.The main theme of the Bible is that we can be born
(at the resurrection) into the God Family.The very terms of Father and Son(s) is synonymous with
family.

AZ, I see that you live in Phoenix. I rented a house on
Camelback for nearly a year before moving to Tucson
for six months. 1979-1980.I remember my first drive up Superstitious Mountain. A
car going up almost forced me off the road on my way
down. Scared the crap out of me.I enjoyed my stay there, as I did in Tucson.At that time I was really into Louis L'Amour westerns.
Several of his books had settings in Arizona.I visited Old Tucson and Tombstone while I was there.I also remember the Lucky Supermarkets. I don't recall
seeing them anywhere but Arizona.I have very fond memories of Arizona.

Phat, I cannot count the number of times that those
"called" by God are referred to as His sons, or His
children.Notice Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more
strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the
saints, and of the household (oikeios-of His house)
of God.Romans 8:16-17 "The spirit itself bears witness with our
Spirit, that we are the children of God.""And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs
with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may
be also glorified together."-exalted in dignity.Any parent will have heirs of all they own. This is the
same with God. His children will inherit all that He has,
including the vast universe.His children will be on the same par with Jesus. We will
be joint-heirs with Him.Joint-heirs (sugkleronomos) co-heirs, heirs together,
heirs with, participants in common.None of the angels are on the same par with Jesus.
None of them are joint-heirs with Him.Paul tell us in 1Corinthians 6:3 that we shall judge angels.We will be above the angels. We will be sons of God.It is almost criminal to insist that sons of God are to be
of a lesser quality than He Himself is.His sons will become members of the God family. They
will in facts become God beings.

AZ, my bad. I thought you were from Phoenix.

AZ, you have no idea what God is like.Any comment you make about Him is way off the
mark.Learn who and what He is before commenting
about Him.When you don't it makes you appear ignorant.Personally, I do not care whether you believe in Him
or not. It has no effect on me. Nor does it have any
effect on God.I don't believe in the tooth fairy. But, I am not going
to devote my life trying to prove that he doesn't exist.A person would, by necessity, be a little off his rocker
to consume his life with someone that he doesn't even
think exists.

AZ, I know about my God. But, you don't.Can you even read? I stated that someone would be off
his rocker to devote his attention to someone that he doesn't
even believe exists.I know that God exists. It is beyond belief.Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth
any man the Father, save the Son, and He to whomsoever the
Son will reveal Him."I am not sure of all that Phat and Dredge believe. I know that
they believe in the God of the Bible.I have stated several times that God is not trying to save the
world during this present age. He is calling people out and
training them to be part of His government when Christ comes
back.When He returns and sets up His Kingdom He will raise in the
first resurrection those that He called out down through the
centuries. They will be under Christ, but they will rule with Him.

Dredge, Jesus is God. Thomas called Him my Lord and
my God.The Father Himself called Jesus God. Hebrews 1:8.
"But unto the Son He said, Thy throne O God, is for ever
and ever..."Psalms 110: 1The Lord said to my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, until
I make thine enemies thy footstool.Vs. 4 "Thou are a priest for ever after the order of
Melchizedek.""Melchizedek was without father, without mother,
without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor
end of life..." Hebrews 7:3.Melchizadek was the same God who later came to earth
as Jesus.Just like the Father, Melchizedek (Jesus) has always
existed.Jesus is the Word in John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was
the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word.
was God.""The same was in the beginning with God."There are two beings here. There is no way around this.
Both of them are God.Suppose one was talking about John Smith.In the building was John, and John was with Smith,
and John was Smith.John was in the building with his father, Bill Smith.The Jews wanted to stone Jesus because He told
them in John 8:59 that before Abraham was, "I AM"I AM is who God (Jesus) told Moses that He was. The
Jews knew what Jesus meant by this but they did not
believe Him. They tried to stone Him.

Dredge, I would like to know why the RCC claim that
Peter was the first Pope (Bishop of Rome). I have strong
evidence that Peter was never in Rome.Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Peter was Apostle
to the Jews.