Examples of non-Christian Moral systems.

1- I'm not surprised you have uncovered yet another conspiracy. I understand why you hate the US, I would too if I weren't a citizen of the greatest free republic on the face of the earth; so I certainly don't blame your envy.2- This has nothing to do with what Jar and I were talking about. We were discussing war and aggression by Judaic and non-Judaic states. Jar wrote this: I gave him several examples including the Soviet Union as examples of non-Judaic nations that created conflict. Your comment was a non-sequiter.

I haven't seen the movie, and it's been a while since I read the book, but wasn't it the Romans who did that?

The Romans crucified him. If it weren't for Judas and the Pharisees who turned him in, he wouldn't have been crucified, right or wrong?And (for bonus points) the Pharisees were:A- Jews
B- Democrats
C- Other
D- I prefer not to enroll

Man you must have a twisted idea of how the rest of the world views you if you think we envy you.

I know you envy our dental care.

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I understand why you hate the US, I would too if I weren't a citizen of the greatest free republic on the face of the earth; so I certainly don't blame your envy.

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... yes, you are just as confident as the creationists who tell me I "hate god"; it only indicates your recognise the weakness of your position. I point out that under the present legal status, I have more rights than you do, notably Habeas Corpus.

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I gave him several examples including the Soviet Union as examples of non-Judaic nations that created conflict. Your comment was a non-sequiter.

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Right, and predictably, you attributed to the USSR things for which it was not responsible; that is all that I was pointing out. Quite a lot of that has gone on precisely becuase of the overlap between religion and the right in the US, based on the "certain knowledge" that the USSR was immoral do to its formal atheism.

The USSR was not responsible for Red October? It wasn't responsible for Stalin and the gulags? The USSR didn't crush rebellions in Hungary and the Czech/Slovakia republics? The USSR didn't invade Afghanistan? Are you freaking serious?Where does the fault for those events lie? With the CIA plant?This message has been edited by custard, 07-01-2004 08:18 AM

We are getting way off topic here.Can we wander back towards Examples of non-Christian Moral systems?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I would like to know more about this.
For one thing was like the slavery we know today?
Or was it more like the NIV interpretation:Exodus 21
7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants doThey use the word servant.AMP bibleExodus 21
7If a man sells his daughter to be a maidservant or bondwoman, she shall not go out [in six years] as menservants do.KJVExodus 21
7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.ESVExodus 217"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.3 out of those 4 choose not to use the word slave.When rhain tries to describe it, he wants to invoke anger in people against the bible by using the word slave. When that word, or the descripition of what was going on back then is much different than what is going on today. I know this because of the fact that he brings it up.

Do you often sell people who aren't slaves?

What does money have to do with it?
Many slaves didn't cost money.Money alone does not make it slavery, especially like the kind of slavery we had here in America.It seems the men were free to go after 6 years.
Maybe in those times it wouldn't be wise to let a women go, because she would have no chance in the world by herself.
Couldn't you marry a slave and get her free?

Sorry, you need proof of that statement, else all you can say is that you believe they are quotes. As noted the 10 commandments are woefully inadequate to cover modern ethical needs (in vitreo fertilization, DNA repair, etc.), there is a definite sexist lean that makes it fail the universality test, to say nothing about the similar problem with the 1st one on the list and people of other faiths.The failure of universality means they just don't work for everyone, and that means they don't work for society. Logic. Universality is one that is critical. See Rousseau's THE SOCIAL CONTRACT
http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon.htm it will cover the development of morals from a logical philosophic basis Seems you have some data you're not sharing ... or just another opinion. What are the bad moral systems? Convergent means independently arriving at the same point, divergent would mean moving away and not returning. Convergent tendencies correct for occasional divergences in the long term trend. Divergent tendencies would not correct or even actively accelerate differences. The divergent pattern would be predicted if there was only one correct system... the convergent one if it was independently derivable from first principles. All of these judgments are based on your social conventions.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

One of the more interesting things about the essay is the question of whether the current Terrorist threat contradicts or confirms his conclusions.At the time it was written it was believed that War must be between Nation States. For most of history that had been true. The exception to the rule was the revolution or civil war where a people fought against their own state. In most cases other Nation States did not get involved except to forward their own Nation State agenda.The question I have is how the current (and by current I am primarily speaking of practices over the last 50 years or so) terrorist threats fit into his Social Contract?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It is not a war -- there is no opposing army to fight and there is no one enemy. Terrorists are the trolls of international society, criminals that need to be caught by police work and international cooperation. They can be defused by taking away their weapon of fear.We know that the response of Israel to the ongoing terrorism there has been completely ineffectual in stemming the tide of violence, and likewise the much publicized "War on Terror" has done little to the trend of terrorism, in fact it looks like terrorism has increased in the aftermath of the war on Iraq according to the revised report on terrorism.The primary way to deal with terrorists is the same as the primary way to deal with internet trolls: lack of attention. Without publicity there will be no draw for new recruits, the cycle will be broken. Deprived of hands and feet the head will be useless.Clean up, carry on, let the police do their work. Work to spread justice, equality and freedom throughout the world, and take away the recruitment draw of perceived injustice, lost freedoms and equality.Is terrorism a threat to any nation? Not really, for there is no way it can take over a country by force without making itself a target that can be attacked. The only weapon it has is fear.Take away the fear and there is no threat.Anything else feeds the trolls.those are my thoughts

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Ah, only if you conclude that victorious terrorism is conquering a piece of land.The amount of resources lost to terrorism, and spent on combating terrorism can be incredibly significant. What, for example, do you think the total cost of the destruction of the WTC was to the city and state of NY, the US taxpayer, and world commerce in general?And, depending on your perspective, terrorism can be a threat to a nation. Not so much in a stable state, but I think state sponsored terrorism in the form of secret police, gulags, genocide, that is all a threat to a country. Depending on which side you are on, 'freedom fighters' also engage in terrorism and have been successful - South Vietnam, Lebanon, Israel/Palestine...I think you were referring to a narrower definition of terrorism - but I just wanted to point out that it can be a threat to unstable states.