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Author Topic:   Examples of non-Christian Moral systems.
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 256 of 296 (123797)
07-11-2004 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 6:32 PM


Re: topic take-over
Infact why do you seems to argue for atheistic type things?
Not aware that I do argue for Atheistic type things. You'll have to enlighten me.
But would you agree that there are viable moral systems that have been put forward by Confucians?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 6:32 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 7:04 PM jar has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 257 of 296 (123799)
07-11-2004 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by jar
07-11-2004 6:49 PM


Re: topic take-over
Not aware that I do argue for Atheistic type things. You'll have to enlighten me.
It's just that you are a rarity to the forum. A christian who seems to preach secularist things. "None-christian"??? "No design"?? "Hitler was christian"(let's not even go there )
Rather typically, and rather dissapointingly (to you)- I also think that there is only one moral way. All throughout the Old Testament it is shown that "oh if only thou hadst hearkened to my Commandments, then thy peace would have been as a river".
Also, in the New Testament, it is told that unGodliness will lead to unGodly activity, and people are given over to their lusts.
But if I am rejected/spanked for having this view, then so be it, I try to please God not men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 6:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by sidelined, posted 07-11-2004 7:11 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 259 by Asgara, posted 07-11-2004 7:12 PM mike the wiz has not replied
 Message 260 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 7:15 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 258 of 296 (123800)
07-11-2004 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 7:04 PM


Re: topic take-over
MTW
Also, in the New Testament, it is told that unGodliness will lead to unGodly activity, and people are given over to their lusts.
What is wrong with lust?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 7:04 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 262 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 7:31 PM sidelined has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 259 of 296 (123801)
07-11-2004 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 7:04 PM


Re: topic take-over
Since when is Non-Christian = secularist?

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 260 of 296 (123802)
07-11-2004 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 7:04 PM


Re: topic take-over
But you still have not responded about Confucius.
It is an entirely different approach to moral systems but would you agree that it has worked well and would be an example of a non-Christian Moral system that has worked well even longer than Christianity?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 7:04 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 261 of 296 (123803)
07-11-2004 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by sidelined
07-11-2004 7:11 PM


Re: topic take-over
Lust leads to many things that are wrong. Adultery is one example. Rape is another. Being rich and loving money is another.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 262 of 296 (123805)
07-11-2004 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by sidelined
07-11-2004 7:11 PM


Re: topic take-over
What is wrong with lust?
Lust is self-centeredness. Lust is not the same as desire. Lust is preoccupation with self through desire. A Christian has no room in his thoughts for his selfishenss. He thinks about God most of all and consequently other people. He considers others above him and considers other people's needs before his own. Any preoccupation with self is arrogance and leads a person's thoughts away from God and others thereby preventing him from living the Christian way of life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by sidelined, posted 07-11-2004 7:11 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 7:36 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 270 by sidelined, posted 07-11-2004 9:41 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 263 of 296 (123806)
07-11-2004 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 7:21 PM


Re: topic take-over
what about lust for god?
lust for knowledge?
lust for a 6 time winner?
This message has been edited by RAZD, 07-11-2004 06:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 7:21 PM mike the wiz has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 264 of 296 (123807)
07-11-2004 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Hangdawg13
07-11-2004 7:31 PM


Getting way off topic again.
There is nothing unique to the Christian position on Lust. All of the Moral Systems have a similar point of view relating to Lust.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 7:31 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 266 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 7:56 PM jar has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 265 of 296 (123810)
07-11-2004 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by jar
07-11-2004 7:36 PM


Re: Getting way off topic again.
Sidelined asked the question; I gave an answer.

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 266 of 296 (123816)
07-11-2004 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by jar
07-11-2004 7:36 PM


Re: Getting way off topic again.
But unGodliness leads to it. Without God it will happen. Therefore, the unique aspect, is bringing it to God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 7:36 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 8:57 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 267 of 296 (123821)
07-11-2004 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 7:56 PM


Re: Getting way off topic again.
But control of Lust is also common under even Atheistic moral systems.
You say unGodliness leads to it but Lust seems to be a pretty common characteristic.
The Buddha, Mencius and Confucius as well as the Tao all address Lust.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 7:56 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 9:14 PM jar has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 268 of 296 (123822)
07-11-2004 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by jar
07-11-2004 8:57 PM


Re: Getting way off topic again.
What I should have said, is what I first said; That unGodliness leads to being "given over" to lusts. You see, the world system is without God, and encourages fornications etc..
So there might be other moral systems, but obviously these systems aren't going to be as good as God's.
You are right about lust being common, but being "given over" to them is obviously the key here. As soon as we think we can go it alone we then start to be Godless, and think of ourselves as confident gods. These things are prophecisies in the NT. Do you think we can go it alone without God? You seem to encourage it.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 07-11-2004 08:15 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 07-11-2004 8:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 269 of 296 (123823)
07-11-2004 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by mike the wiz
07-11-2004 9:14 PM


Re: Getting way off topic again.
Still getting off topic.
Can we get back towards it.
Do you have any indications that the other moral systems do not work as well as the Judaic?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by mike the wiz, posted 07-11-2004 9:14 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 270 of 296 (123826)
07-11-2004 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Hangdawg13
07-11-2004 7:31 PM


Re: topic take-over
Hangdawg13
Lust is self-centeredness. Lust is not the same as desire
You and I have a different concept of lust.What you term lust I would call obsession.Lust has always been an interplay between myself and that which I lusted after.It has always been important to me that my lust for women was something mutual so as far as that goes lust is good in my books because it required that my partner have pleasure in order for me to.
Preoccupation with self is again something that is necessary in reaching a full life.There are unavoidable occasions where life neccesitates selfishness because there is only so much time you can devote to any one thing without it being a detriment to other areas of your life.
I too think of people and I often help those in need.Yet there are times where I will say that a given time is mine to use for my purpose to allow me to advance my career, to save for a down payment on a home by working extra hours and denying my family the time instead.Selfishness is like other aspects of a persons character in that it must be balanced and not eliminated.
It would seem that not all people are burdened by the presence of lust and that we have the lust at all says something about there being a purpose that it serves does it not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 7:31 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Hangdawg13, posted 07-11-2004 11:11 PM sidelined has replied

  
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