EvC Forum: Examples of non-Christian Moral systems.

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Topic: Examples of non-Christian Moral systems.

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1496 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 22 of 296 (119191)
06-27-2004 6:14 AM

Reply to: Message 21 by almeyda
06-27-2004 5:52 AM

We must have absolutes.

Must we? A finite set of morals can't cover every concievable moral situation. I'd say the last thing we need are absolute morals.

The vast number of people who live moral lives without moral absolutes - like me - pretty much proves you wrong. We don't need absolutes.

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	Message 21 by almeyda, posted 06-27-2004 5:52 AM		almeyda has replied

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	Message 26 by almeyda, posted 06-27-2004 6:48 AM		crashfrog has replied

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1496 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 27 of 296 (119198)
06-27-2004 6:58 AM

Reply to: Message 26 by almeyda
06-27-2004 6:48 AM

When society choose relativism over absolutes. Nothing can really be deemed right or wrong.

Why on Earth would you think such a thing?

You've got this idea that the only definition for "wrong" must always be "contrary to the universal moral code."

What if the definition of wrong is simply "that which doesn't make people happy?" We can trust society to come up with ways to make the most people happy, because societies are made of people who want to be happy.

So really we have no basis of morals.

Except, of course, that which makes people happy. I'm not sure that I'd call that an absolute, but it's pretty much a universal as far as people are concerned.

I already talked quite alot at the Does teaching evo cause social decay thread, but again no one agreed or understood.

Oh, we understood. We just knew you were wrong.

The problem for you is that everybody is a moral relativist to some degree. So the society that has chosen relativism over absolutes already exists - it's the only kind of society that has ever existed.

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	Message 26 by almeyda, posted 06-27-2004 6:48 AM		almeyda has replied

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	Message 38 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 4:33 AM		crashfrog has replied

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1496 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 39 of 296 (119410)
06-28-2004 4:52 AM

Reply to: Message 38 by almeyda
06-28-2004 4:33 AM

Which society?

All of them. Societies which don't maximize happiness don't survive - their members leave or revolt.

Which is relativism. Man decides truth.

Almeyda, truth is. Truth cannot be "decided." What you've written is just nonsense.

With Crashfrogs defination in which morals is decided by what brings the greatest happyness for the greatest number. Naturally the utilitarian principle of the greatest good for greatest number would swing in the direction of hanging the man for the greater good.

Playing to people's base hatreds doesn't make people happy. It doesn't maximize happiness, it maximizes hatred. You've clearly failed to understand my position, which is mind-boggling because it's such a simple position - we simply do what works. What is moral? What works. What is not moral? That that does not work.

But we can go back in history and see nations that trusted and knew that there thinking had to be based on Gods word.

Those societies were relativist, though. You're even a relativist, unless you're out there every night stoning witches or anyone wearing mixed fiber clothing.

However today it seems all western nations have become secular humanistic.

Oh, if only that were true, it would be an incredible world we would live in. A world of peace and happiness and freedom.

"What gets me is all the mean things people say about Secular Humanism without even taking the time to read some of our basic scriptures, such as the Bill of Rights or Omni magazine." - Barbara Ehrenreich

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	Message 38 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 4:33 AM		almeyda has replied

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	Message 40 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 5:22 AM		crashfrog has replied

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1496 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 41 of 296 (119454)
06-28-2004 7:53 AM

Reply to: Message 40 by almeyda
06-28-2004 5:22 AM

Dont worry im sure our leaders wont be tyrants.

Why would they be? Unlike in your religion, political power comes from a mandate from the people, not from God.

The government and humanist will rule over us and if we dont want to be 'free', then we will be forced to be 'free'.

Well, you might be forced to let others enjoy the freedoms that you do, but nothing about that seems unfair to me.

Nothing you've said indicates you have any concept of the humanist position, or the beliefs of atheists.

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	Message 40 by almeyda, posted 06-28-2004 5:22 AM		almeyda has not replied

crashfrog

Member (Idle past 1496 days)

Posts: 19762

From: Silver Spring, MD

Joined: 03-20-2003

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Message 107 of 296 (120693)
07-01-2004 8:47 AM

Reply to: Message 94 by custard
07-01-2004 3:13 AM

They killed Jesus

I haven't seen the movie, and it's been a while since I read the book, but wasn't it the Romans who did that?

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	Message 94 by custard, posted 07-01-2004 3:13 AM		custard has replied

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	Message 108 by custard, posted 07-01-2004 9:02 AM		crashfrog has not replied

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