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Author | Topic: Rebuttal To Creationists - "Since We Can't Directly Observe Evolution..." | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Kleinman writes: The idea of hundreds of thousands of viruses infecting cells and yet not causing disease is nonsense, especially in the initial stem cell of a replicator. Mutations can occur in the virus just before or during insertion that results in a non-replicating virus. You are assuming that all viral insertions are capable of replication and producing viable virus, which just isn't true.
You can believe it if you want but I think it is hogwash. I will take the well informed opinion of the world's virologists and geneticists over your uneducated opinions.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Taq:Sure, HIV is an example. Now imagine someone infected with 100,000 different HIV viruses.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Kleinman writes: Now imagine someone infected with 100,000 different HIV viruses. Imagine one cell with an insertion incapable of producing virus. We have examples of an existing virus that is circulating in koalas. We also have examples of ERV's from that virus in the genomes of koalas. What more do you need?
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:You imagine hundreds of thousands of inactivated viruses. None of these viruses are active. They all just happen to get mutations that cause them all to become inactive. Kleinman:Sure, they have wiped out viral diseases all over the world. They are so smart. They have done a wonderful job with Covid.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Just 99,999 to go and they are all inactivated.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Kleinman writes: You imagine hundreds of thousands of inactivated viruses. No need to imagine them. We can observe them in the human genome and the genomes of many other mammals.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Kleinman writes: Just 99,999 to go and they are all inactivated. They wouldn't have all entered the genome at the same time.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:They don't have to be inactivated if they aren't viruses. But you believe they are. You have quite an imagination.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Dredge writes: Junk No Longer: ERVs Are “Integral” and “Important Components” of Immune Responses The usual red herring. No one is saying that ERV's are evidence for common ancestry because they are junk DNA. No one is saying that ERV's are evidence for common ancestry because they lack function. If a viral insertion evolves function after insertion that neither falsifies evolution nor common ancestry. Finding function in ERV's does not put their viral origin in doubt. ERV's are evidence for common ancestry because they occur at the same base in two genomes. I will repeat. ERV's are evidence for common ancestry because they occur at the same base in two genomes. If your argument does not tackle this one aspect of the argument, then it is a red herring.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman:Have you ever seen a child whose mother caught a viral disease early in her pregnancy? It destroys the stem cell.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Kleinman writes: They don't have to be inactivated if they aren't viruses. They have viral genes. We can observe retroviruses creating new ERV's right in front of us. The viral origin of ERV's is not in doubt.
But you believe they are. You have quite an imagination. We can watch retroviruses produce ERV's right in front of us. You are denying observations.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Kleinman writes: Have you ever seen a child whose mother caught a viral disease early in her pregnancy? It destroys the stem cell. We can observe ERV's in the koala genome that is inherited as an ERV, and it is the same sequence as that found in the circulating retrovirus that is currently infecting koalas. We can see it in action. If what you say is true, then these observations would not be possible, and yet there they are.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Dredge:What's the matter, it doesn't fit your narrative.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Kleinman writes: What's the matter, it doesn't fit your narrative. It doesn't address the evidence. No one is saying that ERV's are evidence for common ancestry because they are junk DNA. So why would pointing to functional ERV's refute the argument for common ancestry? If you want to refute an argument you have to address the actual argument. Setting up strawmen does nothing to refute that actual argument.
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