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Author
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Topic: Choosing a faith
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 1995 of 3694 (905801)
02-03-2023 10:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 1992 by GDR
02-03-2023 7:44 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
None of the facts support you. US statistics. Suicide rate per 100000 1950 13.2 1960 12.5 1970 13.1 2019 13.7 Suicide death rate U.S. 1950-2019 | StatistaUS Crime rate has dropped significantly in the last 20 years. Don't believe the RWNJ's FBI — Table 1 So all your claims are false or with huge caveats. It seems the fewer people go to church the better society is. Now if you want to support your claims with evidence instead of anecdotes, I will listen. Then again we all know that will never happen. Hell, you won't even acknowledge this post.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1992 by GDR, posted 02-03-2023 7:44 PM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1997 by Phat, posted 02-03-2023 11:13 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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(2)
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Message 1998 of 3694 (905813)
02-03-2023 11:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 1997 by Phat
02-03-2023 11:13 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Everything you stated is irrelevant to my post. If you want to respond to my post fine, but make it relevant. I will not respond to gish gallop and word salad. Edited by Theodoric, .
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1997 by Phat, posted 02-03-2023 11:13 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2011 of 3694 (905881)
02-04-2023 3:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 2004 by Phat
02-04-2023 12:05 PM
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Re: Im going to come across as an entitled ass...but
Do you actually want a conversation about the pre Civil war US economy? Do you actually think northern states did not benefit from slavery? Do you think you can hand wave away that slavery was enshrined in The Constitution? Do you have any understanding of US history, beyond the basics?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2004 by Phat, posted 02-04-2023 12:05 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2014 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:24 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2015 of 3694 (905915)
02-05-2023 10:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 2014 by Phat
02-05-2023 10:24 AM
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Re: Im going to come across as an entitled ass...but
Racist and ignorant is no way to go through life, but that is what you have chosen.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2014 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 10:24 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2016 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 11:51 AM | | Theodoric has not replied | | | Message 2017 by Dredge, posted 02-05-2023 1:47 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2025 of 3694 (905949)
02-05-2023 3:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 2023 by ringo
02-05-2023 2:29 PM
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Re: Im going to come across as an entitled ass...but
He reads but he does not comprehend.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2023 by ringo, posted 02-05-2023 2:29 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2026 by Phat, posted 02-05-2023 3:29 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2033 of 3694 (906022)
02-06-2023 12:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 2031 by jar
02-06-2023 11:12 AM
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Re: again, Phat needs to learn the basics.s...but
Then consider every treaty signed with an indigenous tribe.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2031 by jar, posted 02-06-2023 11:12 AM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2037 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:52 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2041 of 3694 (906072)
02-06-2023 4:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 2036 by GDR
02-06-2023 3:45 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Christians believe in the historicity of Jesus? Weird. You refuse to address what I have presented repeatedly about the historicity of Jesus.
quote:
TACITUS (c.112CE) Roughly 80 years after the alleged events Tacitus allegedly wrote a (now) famous passage about "Christ" - this passage has several problems however:
* Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used.
* Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.)
* Tacitus accepts the recent advent of Christianity, which was against Roman practice (to only allow ancient and accepted cults and religions.)
* (No-one refers to this passage for a millenium, even early Christians who actively sought such passages.) Thus, even if the Tacitus passage is not a later interpolation,
it is not evidence of a historical Jesus based on earlier Roman records,
but
merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time (c.f. Pliny.) PLINY the Younger (c.112CE) About 80 years after the alleged events, (and over 40 years after the war) Pliny refered to Christians who worshipped a "Christ" as a god, but there is no reference to a historical Jesus or Gospel events. So,
Pliny is not evidence for a historical Jesus of Nazareth,
just evidence for 2nd century Christians who worshipped a Christ. JOSEPHUS (c.96CE) The famous Testamonium Flavianum is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems :
* the T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the Jew Josephus (who refused to acknowledge anyone "messiah"),
* The T.F. comes in several versions of various ages,
* The T.F. was not mentioned by Origen when he reviewed Josephus - Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present in that earlier era.
* The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century.
* (The other tiny passage in Josephus is probably a later interpolation.) An analysis of Josephus can be found here:
http://www.humanists.net/jesuspuzzle/supp10.htm In short - this passage is possibly a total forgery (or at best a corrupt form of a lost original.) But,
its COULD be actual evidence for Jesus. late, corrupt, but just POSSIBLY real historical evidence. Such is the weakness of the evidence that this suspect passage is considered some of the best "evidence" for a historical Jesus of Nazareth.
https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=8000&mlist...
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2036 by GDR, posted 02-06-2023 3:45 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2042 of 3694 (906073)
02-06-2023 4:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 2037 by Phat
02-06-2023 3:52 PM
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Re: again, Phat needs to learn the basics.s...but
We have no trouble paying our bills. The US never has.
Faith writes: There are plenty of moderate or even right wing thinkers in the South American population. Lets get them over here too...without promising the world a Rose garden.
WTF are you talking about? WTF does this have to do with treaties with indigenous tribes? Treaties are Constitutional Law. They are the law of the land. More hate and gish gallop form Phat.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2037 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:52 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2043 of 3694 (906074)
02-06-2023 4:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 2038 by Phat
02-06-2023 3:55 PM
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Re: Im going to come across as an entitled ass...but
Faith writes: Not some party that clings to power with a 5% majority.
So you don't believe in a Republic form of government? You don't want to follow the Constitution? Not surprised. Fascism sounds good doesnt it.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2038 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:55 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2044 of 3694 (906075)
02-06-2023 4:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 2038 by Phat
02-06-2023 3:55 PM
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double post
oops
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2038 by Phat, posted 02-06-2023 3:55 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2056 of 3694 (906215)
02-08-2023 8:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 2055 by GDR
02-08-2023 7:57 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
William Tell, Sun Tzu, Ned Ludd, Pythagoras, Homer, Siddhartha Gautama, Confucius, Laozi are people that either we know were not real or there is no actual evidence for their existence.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2055 by GDR, posted 02-08-2023 7:57 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2058 of 3694 (906217)
02-08-2023 10:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 2057 by GDR
02-08-2023 8:51 PM
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Re: N T Wright
Christians and non-christians think he is a hack. https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/16858THE PROBLEM OF N.T. WRIGHT | VirtueOnline – The Voice for Global Orthodox AnglicanismWhat’s Wrong with Wright: Examining the New Perspective on Paul by Phil Johnson
Nearly Everything Wrong with N. T. Wright Summed Up in One Chapter Heading - Banner of Truth UK Why should we accept anything he writes when his own fellow christians question his views?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2057 by GDR, posted 02-08-2023 8:51 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2076 of 3694 (906345)
02-10-2023 6:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 2073 by Phat
02-10-2023 3:19 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Mormons are christians
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2073 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 3:19 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2079 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 11:28 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2082 of 3694 (906359)
02-10-2023 11:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 2079 by Phat
02-10-2023 11:28 PM
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Re: What's Important enough?
Actually, by definition they are. Why would you say they are not?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2079 by Phat, posted 02-10-2023 11:28 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2083 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 12:13 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9206 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 2084 of 3694 (906376)
02-11-2023 10:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 2083 by Phat
02-11-2023 12:13 AM
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Re: What's Important enough?
According to themselves and logic they are. Everything else you post is a No True Scotsman fallacy. The same could be said about your beliefs by other christians. Again your hate, bigotry and disrespespect for the beliefs of others shines through.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2083 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 12:13 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2085 by Phat, posted 02-11-2023 5:16 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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