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Author | Topic: Choosing a faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Phat writes: It figures you would quote Richard Carrier. Richard Carrier is a hack sent by satan to discredit the Jesus of the Bible. You have no idea how mad that sounds have you?
But of course, you will always believe the guy with academic credentials over any believer I can't say that I blame you, given your respect for evidence and scholarly appraisal. Make up your mind, is he a satanic hack or an accredited academic and scholar?
The question that you might ask yourself honestly is this: "If for some reason the human race fails itself once again and we find ourselves in trouble collectively once again, are you willing to take another hard look at what believers claim to "see" I've taken several 'hard looks' at what you believe, I suggest you do the same before you waste the rest of your life too
I won't ever be able to convince you. I can't.
Of course you can, you just have to do it with reason and evidence not this psychotic theistic drivel you keep spouting.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
( I saw this reply after I made the previous post)
quote:I respect your answer and am actually encouraged by your frustration. It shows me that you want an answer that respects your desire for consensus with us. I don't have a lot of the answers that you seek, but I do have a quote from Lee Strobel's book, A Case For Faith that resonated with me and may or may not be helpful for you. its late, however, and I need sleep. In addition, I have to work today at 230pm and have an eye doctor's appointment at 900am. I'll get back to this..(I have the paragraph in mind that I want to share with you) "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
You have brought up Tacitus before and I have shown repeatedly that what he says does not mean what you think it means. As you refuse to engage with me all I can say is your continued presentation of Tacitus without addressing the issues raised is extremely dishonest and deceitful.
quote:Message 7 What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Have you even read Carrier? He is a renowned scholar. It is interesting that you attack him personally, but do not address his arguments.
If you had any sense of decency you would bow out of this discussion after that ridiculous post. But no you will double and triple down.What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Lee Strobel? You attack Carrier but promote Strobel? Strobel has no relevant education or degrees in the subject matter. He is an ex-journalist that is now a Professor of Christian Thought. His arguments are easily destroyed by actual scholars on the subject. Even nonscholars like Earl Doherty show how feeble Strobel's reasoning is. But who needs arguments, facts and reasoning when you have faith.
Challenging the Verdict What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Admin Director Posts: 13046 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.7 |
Unicode characters can be 1, 2, 3 or 4 bytes. Encoding can be 8-bit or 16-bit. I've never really gotten into it because 99%+ of cases are handled automatically. I should be able to work out proper handling of exception cases, but while exception cases abounded a decade ago (the reason for the database cleanup I did a month or two ago), today I haven't yet been able to make any happen on purpose so I can study what's going on. I need an example case.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Phat writes:
That’s not what I want Phat - I’m not even sure what it means. What I want is a reasoned, evidence based discussion.
It shows me that you want an answer that respects your desire for consensus with us. I don't have a lot of the answers that you seek,
That’s my point, you really should. You’ve based your life (and after-life) on this one guy but you can’t even demonstrate that he even existed!
but I do have a quote from Lee Strobel's book, A Case For Faith that resonated with me and may or may not be helpful for you. You really don’t get it; a random, feel-good, theistic quote isn’t going to do it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Seriously? Earl Dogherty? You pick another one of satans minions who seek to trash Christianity and in fact spend their lives writing books (earning a living, as Leee Strobel does) working for the antichrist rather than Jesus Christ.
Tit for tat, I suppose/
How Challenging the Verdict Fails to Overturn The Case for Christ quote: It really all depends on what you want to do with your time. Do you want to reasonably support Jesus Christ or do you want to find ways to trash Him? And if the latter, I would think that one need to ask themselves why."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
All you have are personal attacks, how about making an argument supporting Strobel or showing he has some sort of credentials to actually make a valid argument?
Edited by Theodoric, . What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
The article I provided is written in plain English .... even you should be able to understand it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dresge writes:
That isn't the point. You need to demonstrate that YOU understand it - by giving the argument in your own words. The article I provided is written in plain English ....even you should be able to understand it.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Read Job.
Richard Carrier is a hack sent by satan .... Phat writes:
Duh. When you get on an airplane, don't you want the pilot to have credentials? But of course, you will always believe the guy with academic credentials over any believer.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You pick another one of satans minions....quote:If there was a Satan, and if he had minions, they would be believers. Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
The article I provided is written in plain English .... even you should be able to understand it. The question is whether you understand it! Creationists (evil by nature as you yourself noted) routinely cite articles which they have never even read! Or else they just read one sentence and ignore the rest -- eg, read the first line of the abstract where they present the problem that the article investigates and solves while ignoring the rest of the abstract where they tell us that they solved that problem and how they did it. One of the worst cases (not Dr. Henry Morris' moon dust claim about a "1976" NASA document which was actually printed in 1967 from a 1965 conference as printed right on the front cover of the document) was a discussion I had with a creationist about the blatantly false leap-second claim (presents a highly inflated rate for the deceleration of the earth's rotation) who cited an article to support his position when in fact that article was the one which definitively refuted that claim. Not only did his own "supporting" article soundly refute his claim, but I'm sure that I had mentioned that same article and quoted from it earlier in the discussion. So we do need for you to demonstrate that you did actually read your article and that you do understand what it says.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric writes: Personal attacks? You started it by attcking Strobel. And I have not attacked either you or Tangle. I merely called out the skeptics you provided who earn a nice living off of trashing Christianity. As far as credentials go, what sort of credentials would you imagine are needed to defend a faith? All you have are personal attacks, how about making an argument supporting Strobel or showing he has some sort of credentials to actually make a valid argument? This isnt my first rodeo. I have examined arguments and counter-arguments over the years. You likely have also. I will admit bias in favor of arguments supporting belief but would argue that many of you are biased against Christianity solely because of the Right Wing and their politicizing of Christianity back when Falwell started the Moral Majority and continuing to this day. Thus we are both biased to a degree. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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