|
Author
|
Topic: Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
|
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
|
|
Message 76 of 314 (126557)
07-22-2004 10:32 AM
|
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
05-24-2004 10:10 AM
|
|
Why would you even attempt to figure out what was going on with that woman in the store and her husband. There is a life long series of issues there, and you could never know the real truth, or what really makes those people happy.
Maybe she was perfectly happy doing what she was doing.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by nator, posted 05-24-2004 10:10 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 80 by Jasonb, posted 07-22-2004 7:49 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied | | | Message 89 by nator, posted 07-23-2004 6:15 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 77 of 314 (126583)
07-22-2004 12:02 PM
|
Reply to: Message 75 by riVeRraT
07-22-2004 10:30 AM
|
|
Re: Paul again.
If you would take the time to read the Muslim version you'd find that the woman did not get decieved first.
O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and enjoy (its good things) as you [both] wish: but approach not this tree or you [both] run into harm and transgression. Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said "Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you [both] should become angels or such beings as live for ever." And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?" They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: if you forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy we shall certainly be lost." (Allah) said: "Get you [both] down with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood for a time." He said: "Therein shall you [both] live and therein shall you [both] die; and from it shall you [both] be taken out (at last)." O you children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you but the raiment of righteousness that is the best. Such are among the signs of Allah that they may receive admonition! O you children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you in the same manner as he got your parents out of the garden stripping them of their raiment to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where you cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith. (Qur'an 7:19 27)
edited to fix line breaks in quote. This message has been edited by jar, 07-22-2004 11:08 AM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 07-22-2004 10:30 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
|
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
|
Just something I noticed from the Bible:
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread Clearly, by Buz's reasoning, the Atkins diet is contrary to God's will!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 84 by 1.61803, posted 07-23-2004 12:24 AM | | crashfrog has not replied | | | Message 93 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 7:21 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
|
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
|
|
|
Message 79 of 314 (126746)
07-22-2004 6:26 PM
|
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
07-22-2004 12:02 PM
|
|
Re: Paul again.
Whew, thank God I'm not muslim !
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by jar, posted 07-22-2004 12:02 PM | | jar has not replied |
|
Jasonb
Inactive Member
|
|
|
Message 80 of 314 (126771)
07-22-2004 7:49 PM
|
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
07-22-2004 10:32 AM
|
|
Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
I believe the bible teaches us that it is a voluntary submission of the wife to the authority of the husband. I don’t know of any verse that says a husband should bring his wife into submission if she does not voluntarily submit. We automatically think that submission of the wife to the husband somehow makes the wife less than her husband. I disagree. I think rather it is a matter of position than worthiness. When I was in the Army I had friends who out ranked me, and at work I was under their authority, but I would not say there were superior to me. Remember Jesus submitted to the authority of his Father, but he was not less important than him.
Jason B
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 07-22-2004 10:32 AM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
|
CK
Member (Idle past 4157 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: 07-04-2004
|
|
|
Message 81 of 314 (126772)
07-22-2004 7:55 PM
|
Reply to: Message 80 by Jasonb
07-22-2004 7:49 PM
|
|
Re: Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
but Jesus was his father?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by Jasonb, posted 07-22-2004 7:49 PM | | Jasonb has not replied |
|
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: 04-09-2004
|
|
|
Message 82 of 314 (126808)
07-22-2004 11:32 PM
|
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
07-22-2004 12:02 PM
|
|
Re: Paul again.
The woman was tempted and yielded to the temptation, the man sinned deliberately, making it iniquity.
The man deliberately chose to do wrong.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by jar, posted 07-22-2004 12:02 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 83 by jar, posted 07-22-2004 11:53 PM | | PecosGeorge has replied | | | Message 98 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 7:44 PM | | PecosGeorge has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Can you read?
Did you read the sura I quoted? If you look, it shows that Adam and Eve both listened to the temptation and acted equally.
quote:
Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said "Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you [both] should become angels or such beings as live for ever." And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-22-2004 11:32 PM | | PecosGeorge has replied |
|
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
|
|
|
Message 84 of 314 (126822)
07-23-2004 12:24 AM
|
Reply to: Message 78 by crashfrog
07-22-2004 5:50 PM
|
|
This made me laugh Crash! Neitzche said that "the abdomen is the reason man does not easily mistake himself as god"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by crashfrog, posted 07-22-2004 5:50 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
|
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: 04-09-2004
|
|
|
Message 85 of 314 (126935)
07-23-2004 9:24 AM
|
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
07-22-2004 11:53 PM
|
|
Re: Can you read?
Mohammed had close connection with jews when he was alive. I guess he didn't like what they said about the fall.
Paraphrasing and plagiarizing was his norm.
Adam and Eve were not subject to death until after the fall. Your sura suggests otherwise.
The only lion that is aslan and Arie gur Yehuda, is wondering why you would espouse islam, teach it and believe it. I say it is your affair. Will he?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by jar, posted 07-22-2004 11:53 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 87 by jar, posted 07-23-2004 1:29 PM | | PecosGeorge has replied |
|
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 507 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
|
|
|
Message 86 of 314 (126961)
07-23-2004 11:44 AM
|
|
|
I watched an episode of one of those white and black The Outer Limits a few days ago. There was a part of the episode that I thought was a great demonstration of what people thought women should be like back then. There was a scientist talking to his friend about an encounter he had with a 2 dimensional being. He described to his friend in detail what happenned and such. Anyhow, his friend's wife (I think her name was Laura) was serving drinks. She couldn't help her curiosity and asked the scientist how the 2 dimensional being could go through walls. Her husband suddenly told her, "Laura!" It looked like he wanted her to shut the hell up. The scientist turned to his friend and said, "It's ok..." So, what's the moral of this story? I thought the unintended message of that episode was that the woman should keep her mouth shut in the presence of her husband. She could only do so with the grace of another man. Not exactly on topic, but I thought it was an interesting thing there.
The Laminator
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Can you read?
quote:
PecosGeorge asks:
The only lion that is aslan and Arie gur Yehuda, is wondering why you would espouse islam, teach it and believe it. I say it is your affair. Will he?
Have you read the Last Battle?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6902 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: 04-09-2004
|
|
|
Message 88 of 314 (127081)
07-23-2004 5:42 PM
|
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
07-23-2004 1:29 PM
|
|
Re: Can you read?
why? can you? more importantly, do you read for understanding.
"Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit!" 2 Cor. 7:1
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by jar, posted 07-23-2004 1:29 PM | | jar has not replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 89 of 314 (127099)
07-23-2004 6:15 PM
|
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
07-22-2004 10:32 AM
|
|
quote:
Why would you even attempt to figure out what was going on with that woman in the store and her husband. There is a life long series of issues there, and you could never know the real truth, or what really makes those people happy.
Maybe she was perfectly happy doing what she was doing.
I've worked in retail sales for 10 years in a company that is nationally known for exceptional service, and I'm very good at it. One of the things that makes someone good at retail sales is their ability to read the non-verbal body language of people very well. In my professional opinion, she didn't appear happy to me. She appeared quite disappointed.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 07-22-2004 10:32 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 91 by riVeRraT, posted 07-23-2004 6:33 PM | | nator has replied |
|
nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
|
|
|
Message 90 of 314 (127101)
07-23-2004 6:30 PM
|
Reply to: Message 80 by Jasonb
07-22-2004 7:49 PM
|
|
Re: Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
quote:
I believe the bible teaches us that it is a voluntary submission of the wife to the authority of the husband.
...except that it doesn't really work out to be voluntary. If a woman is taught to believe that the way to be a good Christian and go to heaven is to submit, then she really has no choice unless she wants to reject her sect's interpretation and receieve eternal punishment. That sounds like no choice to me.
quote:
I don’t know of any verse that says a husband should bring his wife into submission if she does not voluntarily submit. We automatically think that submission of the wife to the husband somehow makes the wife less than her husband. I disagree. I think rather it is a matter of position than worthiness. When I was in the Army I had friends who out ranked me, and at work I was under their authority, but I would not say there were superior to me.
However, you were not in an intimate, lifelong, God-sanctioned love relationship with your Army friends. You were in an employment situation, and I believe that any person, given the talent and drive, can be promoted to the very highest level in the armed services, correct? A Christian wife, no matter her talents, abilities, training, or nature, is always lower in rank than her husband, if she wants to be a "good" Christian woman. She never, ever has the option to raise her status to equal. The truth is, a man who feels like he has the right to overrule the will of his wife is keeping her in a childlike role, and not treating her as a full adult. It is also true that any woman who submits herself to anyone's authority in a relationship is abdicating any chance to be respected as a full adult in that relationship. An adult, healthy relationship is a partership between equals. Tell me, do you think that we should follow what the Bible directs regarding how to treat disobedient children (stoning), or do you think that perhaps some of the family advice, including women submitting to men, might be outmoded and no longer desireable?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 80 by Jasonb, posted 07-22-2004 7:49 PM | | Jasonb has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 140 by Jasonb, posted 07-26-2004 1:24 PM | | nator has replied |
|
™ Version 4.2