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Author
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Topic: Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 7 of 314 (110240)
05-24-2004 11:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by DC85
05-24-2004 10:33 PM
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Paul again.
That is one of the big differences between the Christian and Muslim interpretation of Genesis. In the Muslim version the man and the woman were equal partners and acted together, and shared full and equal responsability for what happened in the Garden.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by DC85, posted 05-24-2004 10:33 PM | | DC85 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 07-22-2004 10:30 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 77 of 314 (126583)
07-22-2004 12:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 75 by riVeRraT
07-22-2004 10:30 AM
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Re: Paul again.
If you would take the time to read the Muslim version you'd find that the woman did not get decieved first.
O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden and enjoy (its good things) as you [both] wish: but approach not this tree or you [both] run into harm and transgression. Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said "Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you [both] should become angels or such beings as live for ever." And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?" They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: if you forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your mercy we shall certainly be lost." (Allah) said: "Get you [both] down with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood for a time." He said: "Therein shall you [both] live and therein shall you [both] die; and from it shall you [both] be taken out (at last)." O you children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you but the raiment of righteousness that is the best. Such are among the signs of Allah that they may receive admonition! O you children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you in the same manner as he got your parents out of the garden stripping them of their raiment to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where you cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith. (Qur'an 7:19 27)
edited to fix line breaks in quote. This message has been edited by jar, 07-22-2004 11:08 AM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 07-22-2004 10:30 AM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Can you read?
Did you read the sura I quoted? If you look, it shows that Adam and Eve both listened to the temptation and acted equally.
quote:
Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said "Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you [both] should become angels or such beings as live for ever." And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by PecosGeorge, posted 07-22-2004 11:32 PM | | PecosGeorge has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Can you read?
quote:
PecosGeorge asks:
The only lion that is aslan and Arie gur Yehuda, is wondering why you would espouse islam, teach it and believe it. I say it is your affair. Will he?
Have you read the Last Battle?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 94 of 314 (127118)
07-23-2004 7:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 92 by Buzsaw
07-23-2004 7:18 PM
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Re: Paul again.
LOL
The Bible being first by milleniums, trumps the Quran. So you obviously believe that the Epic of Gilgamesh trumps the Bible. Buz, the account in the Koran is just yet another version of Genesis.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 7:18 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 7:34 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 97 of 314 (127122)
07-23-2004 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 96 by Buzsaw
07-23-2004 7:34 PM
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Re: Paul again.
Duh. The older trumps the newer, duh. So, as I asked, from that you'd agree that the Epic of Gilgamesh trumps the Genesis?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 7:34 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 8:03 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 99 of 314 (127125)
07-23-2004 7:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by Buzsaw
07-23-2004 7:44 PM
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Re: Paul again.
Incidently, according to the acount, Eve was made and designed by God as a help mate for Adam who was made first. Unless you read Genesis one where they are made at the same time and there is no mention of her being made as a helpmate.
26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 7:44 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 8:13 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 102 of 314 (127138)
07-23-2004 8:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
07-23-2004 8:13 PM
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Re: Paul again.
Buz, the facts are that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 give two different tales. The orders are different and even the means. These are old oral histories, myths, and were never intended to be taken literally.
As I've so often stated, you can come up with just about anything you want by isolating verses from context. But that's what folk like you do. You run through the Bible and pick out those little segments that you want to use to reinforce your prejudices, but the rest is ignored or interpreted. The Bible is but a Map. It is not the territory.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2004 8:13 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sexism and fashion
Solely dependant on the length of the kilt.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
maybe that's part of why men used to marry children instead of actual adult women. he's 30, she's 13... who do you think makes the decisions? While there were some very practical reasons for that practice, one that is seldom mentioned may be that women mature so much faster than men. To have a pair of reletively equal maturity it may be necessary for the man to be decades older than the woman. But the most common reason was that until my mother's generation, the number one cause of death among women was childbirth. A society where large families are needed and childbirth so dangerous will lead to younger brides and more second, third and even fourth marriages.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage
that's crap. maybe women mature faster than men. but not like that. it's really only a couple years difference and it's much more physical than emotional. As only one example of the male species, I can testify that was not the case as I experienced it. One day, in another thread perhaps, I will recount the tales of my enlightenment on the emotional maturity of younger women. 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 290 of 314 (279934)
01-18-2006 7:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 286 by NosyNed
01-18-2006 5:29 PM
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A Harsh Indictment, but justified.
I must admit it pains me when I read an evaluation such as yours. But I also cannot deny that it was essentially true. Overall, Christianity has much to be ashamed about. One reason though is the attempt by Christians down through the ages and continuing today, to deny the reality of the evils done in the name of Christianity. Time and time again I've seen people use the excuse "Well they were not real Christians" or "Anyone can claim to be a Christian". These are futile and hollow assertions. Christianity has been among the most violent, the most intolerant, the most represive movements in human history, and certainly the longest lasting continuing oppressor known. It has also produced moment of grandure and many great works. But those high points do not excuse the bad. As Christians, one basic tenet of faith is that we must acknowledge our sins and try to do better. By pretending that the evils done by Christianity do not represent our Faith, we are failing in our mission. We MUST acknolwedge our failings, slavery, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, what was done to the natives of the Americas, what we did to the Hiwaiians, and yes, what we are doing today to gays. We must acknowledge those acts, and try to do better in the future. It really is as simple as that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 286 by NosyNed, posted 01-18-2006 5:29 PM | | NosyNed has not replied |
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