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Author | Topic: Jar's belief statement- Part 2 | |||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes: There was no real thinking involved, no real questions, only an inexorable conclusion. Of course, a parable is supposed to have an inexorable conclusion. It would have little educational value if it left a lot of plot-threads hanging. We're not supposed to ask questions about the parable itself. Where the real thinking and real questions are involved is in relating the parable to our lives and our relationship with God. We can only learn from a parable if we ask, "Is it a fair description?" and "How does it relate?" - not by rejecting it out of hand. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: If you wre the judge, how would you judge each child? Would you give the adopted children a break? Principle Number One: There is no difference between an adopted child and a natural-born child.
These other children did not know that it was expected of them to do their best in order to receive an inheritance. Refer to Principle Number One. Every child treated as an equal, regardless of what they expected or what was expected of them. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: To life: Narrow path + narrow gate + few find it To death: Wide path + wide gate + many find it I think you're interpreting Matthew 7:13-14 too "narrowly".
quote: It says "life", not "eternal life".It says that the right way to live your life is not easy and the easy way is not right. Notice also that it mentions the gate first and then the path. Choose the proper gate first and it will lead you to the proper path. Choose the wrong gate that leads to the easy path - the easy assumption that "you're in" and you don't have to do anything else - and you lessen your chance of finding the true narrow path. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: Its the person who cannot pass customs that is the asshole. The customs are just enforcing the standard. First, to pass through customs it is not sufficient to say, "I believe that this is Customs and that you are a real Customs Officer." It is necessary to do what is right. You will be judged on what you try to take through and whether or not that tallies with what you declare. Second, it is the Great Customs Officer In The Sky who sets the standards. He is not "just enforcing" something that He has no control over. He can set the standards to let more or less through. If He stops you for not declaring your shoelaces, He is being an asshole. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: I think people fail to recognize that some of the energy and life they feel growing up is the presence of God's Spirit. I tried to tell that to riVeRraT once. I think the exuberance - and even the mischief - is the presence of God's Spirit. But they can only sin when they understand the consequences of what they do - the practical "knowledge of good and evil". Before that they are sin-empty, as they were born. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: It's still a sin.... Is a "sin" a sin if the "sinner" doen't know it's a sin? Is a "sin" something that God arbitrarily decided we shouldn't do?Or is it something that is bad for us? If we don't impute a sin against us, why would God?If we recognize that a child "doesn't know any better", why wouldn't God? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: ... just because sin is not imputed does not mean something is not a sin. Which is why I asked you, "What is a sin?" (Hint: that which is not imputed as a sin might not be a sin.) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: Gods law was put in place to make us conscious of the fact that we cannot meet his level of holiness. No. God's law is our law. It was put in place to help us get along with each other. The law is a living thing, meant to be used in our everyday lives. It was never meant to be an "impossible standard".
Its purpose is to make us feel condemned, for when we feel under condemnation from the law the law will have fulfilled the part it plays in the gospel. I have challenged you before to back that up scripturally and you have never been able to do so. The law should not makes us "feel condemned". It should make us feel empowered - to do what is right for our fellow man, to do what God wants us to do.
... you do not know all the factors involved in the Judgement, all the things which are taken into account. And so you cannot have a clue about where you stand. According to your gospel. Which is why we are well-advised not to judge others: we can not know if they are "better" or "worse" than we are. If salvation had anything to do with belief, the one who says, "I believe" could effectively judge the one who says, "I don't believe." But salvation depends on what we have done (and why we have done it), so only God can judge.
You don't have to work for this gospel. So, why do we tell our kids that anything worth having is worth working for?
Surely a gospel which guarentees your position before God, independant of your good and bad deeds, would be preferable to a gospel which offers no assurance at all.... Not preferable at all. Such a "gospel" would allow the vilest people on earth to be saved, just because they believed the "right" thing, while the best people on earth could be condemned. Quite frankly, I'd rather spend eternity with Gandhi and the Dalai Lama than with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: Such a "gospel" would allow the vilest people on earth to be saved Halleujah. What grace! Not "grace" at all - injustice of the worst sort. Your "gospel" would send Hitler to heaven if he had a death-bed conversion and Gandhi to hell if he didn't. It's equivalent to letting a serial killer go scot-free and executing a schoolgirl for swearing. Not even a remote resemblance to justice. What good is grace without justice?
It would strike me a more sensible to look to a gospel that saves even the vilest if you could be counted amongst their number. On the contrary, it would be more sensible to "look for" a gospel that makes sense, that has some justice to it. It is only the vilest - and those who consider all human beings to be vile - who look for a "gospel" that absolves them of all responsibility.
Perhaps you are more convinced of your own righteousness than you let on. I'm convinced that I'm more righteous than Hitler. Only an idiotic god would rather have Hitler in heaven than me. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: I will say that there is a world of difference between a passionate evangelical event in the Phillipines or so other remote place that involves spiritual manifestations and unexplainable phenomena versus James Randi versus Peter Popoff! The key phrase there seems to be "remote places" - where nobody can investigate what really happened, as opposed to what was reported by believers. (Interesting that you mention James Randi, since he does explain the "unexplainable". If some "unexplainable" phenomena can be explained, why are you willing to conclude that others are not?) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robinrohan writes: Would this qualify as a religious experience? I wouldn't call it a "religious experience". I also wouldn't call it "unexplainable" - I'd call it "unexplained".I don't have to explain the difference, do I? I would have had a lot more questions: Was there just a hole where the stump used to be? Or was there no sign that there ever was a tree there? Any roots left? Any "trace" evidence at all? Trail of dirt across the lawn? Insects? Eggs? Did you have the soil tested? Any damage on other nearby trees? Did you consult a tree surgeon? Any tracks - human or vehicle? Did the neighbours notice any strange vehicles? Did you ask the local busybody? Did you look in all the local garbage bins? I could go on and on. I've seen lots of things that I can't explain.That doesn't make them "unexplainable" - or supernatural. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robinrohan writes: ... obviously I was raised in a barn. What a coincidence - so was I. There was no room in the inn. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: Perhaps many charismatic Christians are immature. Immature Christians or immature humans? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
schrafinator writes: I have such a bad memory, I need to be told things over and over before I remember them. I was going to mention it too, so I will: iano may love you for your body, but some of us love you for your brain (too). And anybody who quotes The Simpsons can't be all bad. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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