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Author Topic:   Choosing a faith
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2476 of 3694 (911257)
06-21-2023 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2467 by PaulK
06-20-2023 3:44 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
Curious as to what the biblical "archaeology" people are spouting.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2467 by PaulK, posted 06-20-2023 3:44 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2479 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2023 12:52 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2477 of 3694 (911258)
06-21-2023 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2468 by candle2
06-20-2023 5:33 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
How is this relevant and how does this prove the Bible is factual? The Empire State building and NYC are factual. So there really was a King Kong?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2468 by candle2, posted 06-20-2023 5:33 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2478 of 3694 (911259)
06-21-2023 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2450 by Tangle
06-17-2023 11:37 AM


Re: Canary In A Quote Mine
Tangle, when Satan took his demons and ascended into
heaven, he was prepared to fight against God in order to
get his way.
Satan is no match for God. However, in order for him to
be willing to fight God he must have been incredibly
powerful.
God could have ended Satan with a wave of His hand,
but He allowed Michael and the other angels to defeat
him.
The solar system and most likely the entire universe was
damaged. Satan and his demons were forced back to
earth.
In the first chapter of Genesis we see that the earth is
covered with water and stygian darkness.
God begins to renew the face of the earth, readying it for
the creation of man.
He did not renew the other planets and moons in our solar
system. They still carry the scars of that titanic war.
However, God did adjust the rotation of the Earth and
moon to each other as well as their rotation with the sun.
When the earth was originally created the angels leaped
for joy. Job 38:7.
Psalms 104:30 "Thou sends forth thy spirit, they are
created: and thou renewest the face of the earth."
Isaiah 45:18 states that the earth was not created in
vain (tohuw-to lie waste, desolation, worthless thing).
Genesis 1:2 states that the earth was w/o form (tohuw)
and void (bohuw-an undistinguishable ruin).
Was is from hayah-to exist, or become, come to pass.
What verse 2 states is that the earth had become waste;
it had become an undistinguishable ruin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2450 by Tangle, posted 06-17-2023 11:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2488 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2023 3:25 AM candle2 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2479 of 3694 (911260)
06-21-2023 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2476 by Theodoric
06-21-2023 12:34 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
Have you noticed that candle2’s sources are either old, or hoaxes or both?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2476 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2023 12:34 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2480 by Tangle, posted 06-21-2023 1:20 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 2481 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2023 4:52 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9515
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 2480 of 3694 (911261)
06-21-2023 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2479 by PaulK
06-21-2023 12:52 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
He's a medieval throwback.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2479 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2023 12:52 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2481 of 3694 (911262)
06-21-2023 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2479 by PaulK
06-21-2023 12:52 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
Every one. I especially love it when he posts a hoax as a source. Fundies will believe anything.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2479 by PaulK, posted 06-21-2023 12:52 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2485 by Phat, posted 06-21-2023 11:20 PM Theodoric has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2482 of 3694 (911264)
06-21-2023 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2453 by Tangle
06-19-2023 11:44 AM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
Tangle, in verse 3 God said "Let there be light."He did not
create the sun on this day. It had been created sometime
in the past.
The angelic war in the heavens had filled the earth's
atmosphere with debris.
On this day someone standing on the face of the earth
would have seen light trickle through. However, the light
would have been translucent because of the heavy water
vapor, much like on Venus today.
On day four God removed the cloud-cover from the
atmosphere, which allowed visual observation of the sun,
moon, stars, and other heavenly bodies.
Visual observation of the heavenly bodies could then
be used to keep track of time.
The NKJ version begins verse 16 with "then." Then God
made suggests continuity of action.
The AS, RS, and KJ translations start with "and."
"Made (asah) denotes completed action, which implies
that all could have been created that day, or anytime
previously.
Also, verses 16-18 are parenthetical statements that
they had been made sometime in the past.
The creation account was a renewing (repairing) of the
earth. God readied it for man.
I do not know how old the universe is, and neither does
anyone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2453 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2023 11:44 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2483 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2023 10:57 PM candle2 has not replied
 Message 2484 by Phat, posted 06-21-2023 11:15 PM candle2 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2483 of 3694 (911265)
06-21-2023 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2482 by candle2
06-21-2023 7:25 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
There is no heavy water vapor on Venus.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2482 by candle2, posted 06-21-2023 7:25 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2484 of 3694 (911266)
06-21-2023 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2482 by candle2
06-21-2023 7:25 PM


United Church of God Teachings
This is where you stop reading the Bible for yourself and go off on your church's teachings.
Light on Day 1 but the Sun on Day 4?
I get that you believe that your church has sound teachings, but just like dwise1 is sweating me in regards to Calvary Chapel, I am going to sweat you in regards to the United Church of God.
First, let's examine what the church says about itself.
About the United Church of God
Your church is very thorough in its education of members beyond the Bible itself. I don't see any false teachings yet, but I am wary since years ago I listened to Herbert W. Armstrong.
Apparently, your church was a reorganized new start, though Ambassador College descends from Armstrong as does the magazine (formerly known as The Plain Truth ) and now known as Beyond Today.
To be fair, it looks as if your church UCG split from Armstrong's Worldwide Church Of God in 1995.
I'm not challenging your core teachings yet, though it appears that you have been taught an agenda. Dwise1 reminds me that Calvary Chapel had a strong agenda and that there is organized religion behind the scenes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2482 by candle2, posted 06-21-2023 7:25 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2500 by dwise1, posted 06-23-2023 10:09 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2574 by candle2, posted 07-16-2023 7:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2485 of 3694 (911267)
06-21-2023 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2481 by Theodoric
06-21-2023 4:52 PM


Fundies will believe anything.
Theodoric writes:
Fundies will believe anything.
Critical Thinkers, by contrast, believe *NOTHING* without verifiable evidence. If God exists, I wonder why He set it up that way.
And I wonder why you, who never was a believer, can throw stones at belief simply due to the fact that it does not ascribe to your rules of evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2481 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2023 4:52 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2486 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2023 11:35 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2486 of 3694 (911268)
06-21-2023 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2485 by Phat
06-21-2023 11:20 PM


Re: Fundies will believe anything.
They are not my rules of evidence.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2485 by Phat, posted 06-21-2023 11:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2495 by Phat, posted 06-23-2023 8:14 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18349
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2487 of 3694 (911269)
06-21-2023 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2470 by dwise1
06-20-2023 6:08 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
First, I want to go deeper into how you actually read the Bible and rejected all of it.
I can see a guy who goes to marriage counseling, gets handed authoritarianism by Christian sources, rejects the whole kit and kaboodle of Christian thinking, and becomes reinforcingly more of a critical thinker.
I cant understand, however, why it is so hard to believe in Jesus Christ as Gods character.
Is it the whole logical argument from older religions about anthropomorphizing God?
Is it witnessing the bad behavior of self-professed believers?
For you, I know that the pattern of lies and denials among creationists was notable, but
Why this carries over into believers who have no problems with evolution mystifies me.
I think I know the answer, though it is but a guess. A lot of you disapprove of conservatives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2470 by dwise1, posted 06-20-2023 6:08 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9515
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 2488 of 3694 (911270)
06-22-2023 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2478 by candle2
06-21-2023 12:39 PM


Re: Canary In A Quote Mine
candle2 writes:
Tangle, when Satan took his demons and ascended into heaven, he was prepared to fight against God in order to
get his way.
Once upon a time, in a faraway land, there lived a beautiful princess named Cinderella. She possessed an enchanting grace that captivated the hearts of all who laid eyes upon her. […] And everyone lived happily ever after.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2478 by candle2, posted 06-21-2023 12:39 PM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2489 of 3694 (911279)
06-22-2023 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2453 by Tangle
06-19-2023 11:44 AM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canaryn A Quote Mine
Tangle, the angels failed to do what God had assigned
to them. God is a Creator, and the angels were to assist,
but they rebelled.
God would now rely on humans!
God knew that the angels would fail. He also knew that
Adam and the entire human race would rebel against Him.
Revelations 13:8 tells us that Christ knew that He would
give His life for us before the world was ever created.
Angels were created before the earth was created. God
knew they would rebel, and He knew that humans would
rebel.
Adam was to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord.
And God had told Him that He would lead Adam and Eve
throughout their lives.
He would teach them the way to true happiness. He only
knows the way to peace and happiness.
Satan deceived Adam and Eve into disobeying God. He
led them to believe that they themselves could decide
what was good or bad.
Adam was to replace Satan on earth's throne. God allows
one to stay in power until a replacement is ready. Satan
could not allow Adam to succeed.
Adam and Eve made a choice to find true happiness on
their own, without interference from God.
Sin had entered their lives and it brought with it the
death penalty.
Sin is the transgressions of God's laws.
Sin is not in God's righteous character. He abhors it.
Jesus, as our Creator, came to earth as a mortal man.
He lived a sinless life and He took upon Himself our sins.
His life is far greater than all of our lives combined.
Many falsely assume that God's righteous Commandments
are contrary to us. They also assume that He took them
out of the way, that He nailed them to the cross.
This is utterly ridiculous. What was against us was the
death penalty. He took our place.
It is not against us to not lie or steal; it is not against us
to honor our parents, etc...
Adam and Eve did not trust God. They wanted to trust in
themselves instead of God.
God is now allowing humanity 6000 years to try every
conceivable form of government. He is giving us this
time to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that He only
know the way to peace and happiness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2453 by Tangle, posted 06-19-2023 11:44 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2490 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2023 5:26 PM candle2 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9515
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 2490 of 3694 (911280)
06-22-2023 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2489 by candle2
06-22-2023 4:51 PM


Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canaryn A Quote Mine
Candle2, once upon a time, in a faraway kingdom, there lived a humble woodcutter and his daughter, Rose. One day, while wandering through the enchanted forest, Rose stumbled upon a hidden cottage, inhabited by a family of talking animals. Little did she know, this chance encounter would set her on a magical journey filled with love, courage, and the power to change her destiny forever.
As Rose embarked on her quest, she encountered a mischievous pixie who offered her a golden key, promising that it would unlock the secrets to her heart's desires. With unwavering determination, Rose ventured through treacherous lands and faced daunting challenges, guided by her pure heart and the belief that true magic resides within.
[...]
In the end, Rose's selflessness and bravery triumphed over darkness, and she not only discovered her own inner strength but also brought harmony and happiness to the kingdom. And so, her name became legendary, forever remembered as the hero who restored the light and brought the enchanting tale to life.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2489 by candle2, posted 06-22-2023 4:51 PM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2491 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 5:57 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 2493 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2023 6:11 AM Tangle has not replied

  
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