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Author | Topic: Choosing a faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
GDR writes: PaulK writes:
Mark 13 is a prediction of what the Romans will do in response to a military revolution. Really? Mark 13 There are numerous reasons to know that . Here is Mark 13:14. quote: Actually it's a reference to what had already happened, the destruction of the Temple and the retreat to the stronghold at Masada. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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GDR writes: Well, your hero Richard Dawkins doesn't agree with you or Carriere either.
Ricahrd Dawkins on historicity of Jesus A scholar outside his field is just another layman. Dawkins is brilliant and his span of knowledge is vast, but while true polymaths do exist I don't think many would consider Dawkins one of them. His comments on religion have always, at least to me, seemed driven much more by irrational hatred than by intellect. Fred Hoyle, if you've heard of him, is a good example of the pitfalls that lie in wait of geniuses who step too far outside their field of expertise. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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GDR writes: As a result, IMHO, the church is in the throes of another reformation which in many ways will be as pronounced as the one 500 years ago. On a positive note, at least you're not predicting the second coming. The church is no more connected to their presumed divine than it ever was. Hence, any changes will be man-made and completely unrelated to any divine reality, should such exist.
Again IMHO I would say that at some point you have been "born again". If this discussion has taught you just one thing one would hope it would be that "IMHO" is equivalent to "I have no evidence-based rationale for what I'm about to say."
Anybody can make the Bible say just about anything they want by taking some passage and going with it. Yes indeedy. And you're not half bad at it. The conundrum is why you can't take the next step and see that all your thinking is arbitrary with respect to the Bible, and driven from within with respect to yourself.
Again, IMHO... --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Percy writes: That's quite a proclamation. Do you extend that premise so as to say that humanity's changes going forward will also be unrelated to any divine reality? (should One exist ) The church is no more connected to their presumed divine than it ever was. Hence, any changes will be man-made and completely unrelated to any divine reality, should such exist. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2
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As he refuses to engage with me. I will post this comment here.
What does he mean by "the church"? There is no "church". There are multitudes of churches with a full spectrum of different beliefs.What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There isn't much difference between your Democrats and Republicans on private property rights.
I agree with the liberals about social security and unionism. I agree with the conservatives on private property rights... Phat writes:
As I have said to you before, there is no freedom without equality. As longs as slaves are not treated equally (e.g. the right to form unions) they are not free.
... and on freedom before equality. Phat writes:
Nobody does. I do NOT advocate a secular "church": of a government even if the evangelicals have dropped the ball in regard to social welfare. However, social welfare is the NUMBER ONE responsibility of society. And if the churches don't do it, the government HAS to.
Phat writes:
God's judgement is small consolation to people living on the streets when it's minus 20 Celsius.
Let God judge us... Phat writes:
There's that word "harpy" again. Do you even know what it means? ... rather than harpy liberals.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
"We" don't ALL believe that. Not by a long shot. It's obviously nonsense. Miracles, for example, leave evidence. I differ in some ways as believers, but I think we all agree that the supernatural cannot ever leave evidence... Edited by ringo, : Spell[ing. Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Actually no. I will have to look it up. I got it from you, however. You once referred to Faith (our member) as a harpy. There's that word "harpy" again. Do you even know what it means?The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. There are not. All you believers ever do is re-state the "evidence that has already been refuted.
There are numerous counterarguments... Phat writes:
There are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than two political persuasions. ... many people of both political persuasions are believers...Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: There goes that Left authoritarianism again! Not only have you used the word evidence as your holy mantra, you have the audacity to proclaim what is and is not nonsense. Which is itself nonsense. Theo prefers the term word salad which jar used to use often. Also...not all miracles leave evidence. You guys likely throw the reports out of any purported miracles that don't however...even if 1000 people saw it. As I said, the world is divided between populist appeals to authority and liberal socialists becoming authoritarians because "they have to do it!" Did China have to lock down its population? If there ever were an antichrist, he/she/it wouldn't be a character like Trump. It would likely come from the East....in China. It's obviously nonsense.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I did. One of the definitions of harpy is "a shrewish woman" Merriam-Webster and shrewish means "ill-natured, intractable". That's Faith all over.
You once referred to Faith (our member) as a harpy. Phat writes:
You have called Kamala Harris and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez "harpies". I assumed you got the word from your usual ultra-right-wing sources. I got it from you, however. And it's typical of you to use words without knowing what they mean.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And there's another word you use without knowing the meaning.
There goes that Left authoritarianism again! Phat writes:
And now you're equating authoritarianism with holiness?
Not only have you used the word evidence as your holy mantra... Phat writes:
I gave an example illustrating that it is nonsense: Miracles leave evidence.
... you have the audacity to proclaim what is and is not nonsense. Phat writes:
At least salad is nutritious and can sometimes taste good if you have enough dressing. I prefer "nonsense" because it is neither nutritious nor tasty.
Theo prefers the term word salad which jar used to use often. Phat writes:
Then how do you know they happened? Also...not all miracles leave evidence. And it doesn't matter anyway. You said that miracles CANNOT EVER leave evidence Message 1481. As long as ANY miracle leaves evidence, you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and WRONG.
Phat writes:
Hello? If 1,000 peple SAW it, that's eyewitness evidence. It's the worst possible evidence but it IS evidence.
You guys likely throw the reports out of any purported miracles that don't however...even if 1000 people saw it. Phat writes:
Learn what "authoritarian" means. ... liberal socialists becoming authoritarians because "they have to do it!" If I feel that I have to do something, that is NOT authoritarian.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
We differ in our beliefs, and we differ on one basic fact.
You guys say that facts have shown enough evidence that God does not exist...or is a "force" much like George Luca's depiction of the Star Wars "Energy field that permeates the universe". The argument that God is entirely a human-invented concept has a strong argument, but the fact is we don't know. We DO know that there are as many churches as there are pot dispensaries. Candle and I attend two different churches with two different sets of beliefs. Yet as Hank Haanagraf says, we converge within the "pail of orthodoxy". Look at jar and I. jar insists that he is a Christian due to the fact that he was raised in a Christian home, attended a Christian school, and is a charter member of the Episcopalian church.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Also...not all miracles leave evidence. So pray tell what miracles have happened that left no evidence of their happening and how do you know?
You guys likely throw the reports out of any purported miracles that don't however...even if 1000 people saw it You mean like the mass hysteria that brought on Our Lady of Fátima - Wikipedia and its Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia? The same kind of hysteria humans are well known for after football games?Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Wiki defines it. Authoritarianism We also had that Canadian guy who wrote the book called The Authoritarians. Learn what "authoritarian" means. ringo writes: If I feel that I have to do something, that is NOT authoritarian.Wiki writes: If you and the peanut gallery voted in a government that seized everyone's gold, as FDR did, that would be an authoritarian action. Especially after gold became legal to own again even though Nixon decoupled the dollar from gold. Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.[1][2] Political scientists have created many typologies describing variations of authoritarian forms of government.[2] Authoritarian regimes may be either autocratic or oligarchic and may be based upon the rule of a party or the military.Wiki writes:
The political scientist Juan Linz, in an influential[8] 1964 work, An Authoritarian Regime: Spain, defined authoritarianism as possessing four qualities: Limited political pluralism, is realized with constraints on the legislature, political parties, and interest groups.Political legitimacy is based upon appeals to emotion and identification of the regime as a necessary evil to combat "easily recognizable societal problems, such as underdevelopment or insurgency." Minimal political mobilization, and suppression of anti-regime activities. Ill-defined executive powers, often vague and shifting extends the power of the executive. ringo writes: No. Only Jesus is Holy. Even a Theocracy would not be "holy" though it might be authoritarian. China is run by Socialists. Note how they lock people down against their will "ostensibly" for the good of the people. And now you're equating authoritarianism with holiness? The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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