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Author
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Topic: Choosing a faith
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2496 of 3694 (911291)
06-23-2023 8:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 2494 by Phat
06-23-2023 8:02 AM
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Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canaryn A Quote Mine
Phat writes: All I get is that you are telling me that I have believed in a myth and a mythological savior for 30 years. You have.
So it's not enough that you "outgrew your childhood beliefs" as you and others so smugly say.
What more is required? You believe in a myth created by primitive, superstitious people a couple of thousand of years ago.
You are so sure that you (and your peanut gallery support group) are wiser than I am that you tell me things like "you never listen to what *we* told you and keep repeating yourself time after time after time".
Do you have any idea how psychologically hurtful that sort of stuff can be? This is a discussion and debate forum, you've been here 20 years hearing the same stuff year after year, how come it's only now that you've noticed? Do you really expect us to stop trying to correct your errors?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2494 by Phat, posted 06-23-2023 8:02 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2497 by Phat, posted 06-23-2023 8:36 AM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2499 of 3694 (911297)
06-23-2023 10:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 2498 by candle2
06-23-2023 9:46 AM
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Re: Curiousity Killed The Cat That Ate The Canary In A Quote Mine
candle2 writes: Tangle, in Genesis we see earth's current ruler (Satan), and his potential replacement (Adam). Satan used his power of deception to cause Adam to sin, thereby disqualifying him. Once upon a time, in a land of eternal winter, there lived a young princess named Celeste. She possessed a rare gift inherited from her ancestors—a voice so captivating that it could melt even the coldest of hearts. Yet, a wicked sorceress, jealous of Celeste's enchanting voice, cast a spell that stole her ability to speak. Determined to break the curse, Celeste embarked on a perilous journey, accompanied by a loyal talking songbird named Melody, who vowed to help her find the cure hidden deep within the enchanted forest. [...] Together, Celeste and Melody braved treacherous trials, unraveling the secrets of the forest, until they discovered a mystical flower whose petals held the power to restore the princess's voice. There are a lot of fairy stories out there in the world, people have great imaginations and always want a happy ending.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2498 by candle2, posted 06-23-2023 9:46 AM | | candle2 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2506 of 3694 (911340)
06-27-2023 12:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 2505 by candle2
06-27-2023 11:32 AM
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Ape shit
The only thing you got right in that steaming pile of crap is that Lucy was an ape. But then, so are you.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2505 by candle2, posted 06-27-2023 11:32 AM | | candle2 has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2512 of 3694 (911376)
06-30-2023 3:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 2511 by GDR
06-30-2023 3:22 PM
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Re: United Church of God Teachings
GDR writes: You can't square belief in a genocidal god with the teachings of Jesus. Of course he can! Just like you can square a believe in a loving god with a god that allows the entirety of his creation to suffer and die. People aren't rational, they believe what they need to believe.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2511 by GDR, posted 06-30-2023 3:22 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2513 by GDR, posted 06-30-2023 4:26 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2514 of 3694 (911378)
06-30-2023 4:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 2513 by GDR
06-30-2023 4:26 PM
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Re: United Church of God Teachings
GDR writes: Sure all life suffers physical death but of course the Christian message is that physical death is not the same as the death of consciousness. You see how easy it is to rationalise away a problem that's confounded religion and philosophy from the beginning of time? Poof, gone!
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2513 by GDR, posted 06-30-2023 4:26 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2515 by GDR, posted 06-30-2023 7:45 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2516 of 3694 (911380)
07-01-2023 1:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 2515 by GDR
06-30-2023 7:45 PM
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Re: United Church of God Teachings
GDR writes: We have enough of these discussions that you know that I have previously said that this is the biggest issue that Christians have to face. So certainly it is a matter of faith, but it is part of the Christian faith. Of course I don't know that it rep[resents the truth but I do believe it. However, true or not, I still believe that we are called as humans to do all that we can to mitigate death and suffering. You believe what you want to believe and candle believes what he wants to believe. Like us, you know he's just factually wrong to believe that the animals and plants that we see around us today were created only 6,000 years ago in the form that we see them in now. He believes that Adam and Eve were real and that Noah really did build an Ark. If you'd been around in the 17th century you'd believe that too. As would I. Beliefs are cultural. What you believe is a function of the society you're born into, when your were born and your own personality and education. You are able to see the irrationality of candle's beliefs, but not your own. And that's simply because your beliefs prevent you.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2515 by GDR, posted 06-30-2023 7:45 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2518 by GDR, posted 07-01-2023 7:06 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2520 of 3694 (911388)
07-02-2023 2:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 2518 by GDR
07-01-2023 7:06 PM
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Re: United Church of God Teachings
GDR writes: Just as you believe what you want to believe.
You've been playing this false equivalence card for years. Nothing anyone can say stops you. You really need it don't you? I don't believe that even you believe that a belief in, say, talking snakes and animals going in two-by-two is the equivalent of my 'belief' in, say, the scientific method. Do you? You're being disingenuous as usual. You know (not believe) that candle's beliefs are plain wrong just like I do; there's no equivalence there; it's just a matter of fact but 500 years ago all three of us would have believed the same things. It's developmental and with developmental changes you'll have people far behind and people far ahead. Your personal beliefs are a function of societies and personal preferences, as are mine. Neither of us invented them. But just as you've trimmed down the original Christian beliefs to suit some modern knowledge and abandoned the most ludicrous, I've gone a bit further and allowed more knowledge and fewer beliefs. Our culture has allowed us to do this. And by-the-way, as far as religious beliefs go my only remaining irrational belief is that there is no god. I have no idea whether that position is correct or not. I certainly don't "believe that we are nothing but that life exists, against all odds, because of blind mindless good luck." I simply don't know. What I do know is that all the various flavours of institutional religions are complete manmade fabrications born of primitive superstitions and human power struggles. Your form of Christianity is just one of many thousands such inventions. Edited by Tangle, .
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2518 by GDR, posted 07-01-2023 7:06 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2521 by GDR, posted 07-02-2023 6:10 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2545 of 3694 (911495)
07-09-2023 6:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 2544 by candle2
07-09-2023 3:17 PM
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Re: Ape shit
candle2 writes: Tangle, your problem, and that of other atheists, is that you lack common sense. You might very well be an educated individual, but without common sense it is of little use. And the problem with you and other fundamental religionists, is that you're all dickheads. Are we good?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2544 by candle2, posted 07-09-2023 3:17 PM | | candle2 has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2554 of 3694 (911519)
07-11-2023 5:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 2553 by candle2
07-11-2023 3:56 PM
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Re: Ape shit
Are you a Jehovah's Witness?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2553 by candle2, posted 07-11-2023 3:56 PM | | candle2 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2555 by dwise1, posted 07-11-2023 7:17 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2588 of 3694 (911601)
07-18-2023 5:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 2586 by GDR
07-18-2023 11:00 AM
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Re: God created evolution
GDR writes: I would suggest that C2 consider the idea that God created evolution and stop trying to replace Jesus with the Bible. He believes that all the animal and plant species were put here on earth 6,000 years ago as we see them today. Something that is as provably wrong as gravity only works on a Tuesday. Why do you think he'll change that belief? After all, it's a pretty advanced belief, he's quite open to the idea that the earth might be a lot older than that. His belief, like yours, is developmental - he's moved on given more information - just not beyond the 19th century. He's correct in one thing; the bible is all you've got to base your weird beliefs on.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2586 by GDR, posted 07-18-2023 11:00 AM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2589 by GDR, posted 07-18-2023 7:26 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2612 of 3694 (911733)
07-25-2023 4:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 2611 by GDR
07-25-2023 2:48 PM
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Re: God created evolution
...and could you ask who wrote the gospels 'cos the wold wants to know.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2611 by GDR, posted 07-25-2023 2:48 PM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2613 by AZPaul3, posted 07-25-2023 5:08 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2632 of 3694 (911936)
08-03-2023 11:06 AM
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… and that, O best beloved, is how a just and loving god was created.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2638 of 3694 (911964)
08-05-2023 12:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 2637 by candle2
08-05-2023 9:04 AM
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Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
Have you not wondered why their are such things as paedophiles? Here in the UK I heard a news item that claimed that there are over 100,000 IP addresses for known child porn users. If true - and it was a police statistic - that means that a very large proportion of men are attracted to children. Why? There are possible explanations, but you believe that your god made them this way. So again, why? This is not a choice, I'm not attracted to children, I couldn't even be made to do it, it would be physically impossible for me - the idea is utterly repulsive. So why did your god make people who are not repulsed by it?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2637 by candle2, posted 08-05-2023 9:04 AM | | candle2 has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2649 of 3694 (911977)
08-06-2023 2:03 AM
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Reply to: Message 2639 by GDR
08-05-2023 4:40 PM
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Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
GDR writes: Yes God created a creature that is capable of unspeakable acts of cruelty … My question was why did he do that? And you've still not fully grasped this point. It's not just that people are capable of 'unspeakable acts', it's the fact that some are actually programmed to do them. Why do you believe your god did that? (And quit blaming science, paedophilia outdates the internet by thousands of years - 6,000 in candle2’s bizarre world - it's a human trait.)
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2639 by GDR, posted 08-05-2023 4:40 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2650 by Phat, posted 08-06-2023 10:30 AM | | Tangle has replied | | | Message 2658 by GDR, posted 08-06-2023 5:54 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 2651 of 3694 (911981)
08-06-2023 10:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 2650 by Phat
08-06-2023 10:30 AM
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Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
Phat writes: Personally I dont believe that any human is preprogrammed either way. Ask yourself; do you believe you could rape a baby? If the answer is yes, get help. If it's no then congratulations, you're not capable of committing that particular evil. If that isn't some form of programming, what is it?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2650 by Phat, posted 08-06-2023 10:30 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2652 by Phat, posted 08-06-2023 10:45 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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