Choosing a faith

OK. Here is the discussion. I was clearly talking about what He said in front of Pilate ands no where did I suggest that this quote was from before He was arrested or as the reason He was arrested. It was simply about the Jewish authorities, giving Pilate a reason for Pilate to want Him crucified.

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I was clearly talking about what He said in front of Pilate ands no where did I suggest that this quote was from before He was arrested or as the reason He was arrested. It was simply about the Jewish authorities, giving Pilate a reason for Pilate to want Him crucified.

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You forgot to read in context. We were discussing reasons why the Priests might have considered Jesus a threat and had him arrested on that basis. Obviously a statement made by Jesus after he was arrested coukd not have been a factor.

Pollux, if you notice in 2 Samuel 24:1, God's anger was
kindled against David.Just because God allows something, is not the same as
saying God is the one who directly causes it to occur.Satan directly tempted David (1Chr. 24:1) to number Israel.
However, David, of his own free will, decided to give in to
temptation, and God allowed it to happen.God allows us to sin against Him.Perhaps, David didn't conduct the cencus according to
God's instructions in Exodus 30.According to Exodus 30, a small offering of half a shekel
was required of everyone (age 20 & over) who was
counted.Before The death of Christ, the money was counted in
order to act as a ransom for their lives. It was a symbolic
atonement for their lives.Theoney would be set aside and used specifically for
worship to God.Perhaps. David did not instruct the Israelites to do this, or
perhaps, many of the Israelites refused to do so.The laws of God were drilled into every Israelites, even
at an early age. They all knew about the offering.Collectively, Israel was redeemed as a family. Their fate
was held for all of them.Satan cannot read minds. He is nor omnipresent, omnipotent,
or omniscient.In the video that I posted you can see beginning at 22:40
through 27:30 the many posters that the magicians
themselves designed showing demons whispering in
their ears.The magicians can hear them. The magician and the
demon must both know what is about to happen.If we heard them whispering in our ears, we would think
that we were delusional. Satan and his demons are much
too tactful than this.Their messages seem to come from our own minds. And,
sometimes they do, but not always.The other demons are of the same substance as Satan.
They have the same ability to move in and out of
dimensions. They have the same ability to manipulate
the environment.Satan is simply on a higher level.They can only temp us with what we desire. And they
know what those desires are for each of us. They watch
us 24-7.We can become what was never offered them. That is to
become the very sons of God. To be resurrected into God's
family. And they hate us for this.Paul tell us to not give place to the devil. To not let the
sun go down on our wrath. Satan can intensify these
emotions. Eph. 4:26-27.I learned years ago to forgive people and to calm my anger
before going to bed for the night.

OK Here is the context. You replied; So I replied: So you brought up Jesus claiming Kingship. I replied to that by telling you what that meant and at no point did I ever claim that was one of the reasons he was arrested.
I gave 2 reasons;
1/ Stirring up the population partly by saying that the Temple authorities had turned the Temple into a "den of thieves".
2/ Overturning the tables of the money changers and his other action in the Temple.This was about Jesus coming up with a reason that Pilate would want to have Him crucified, which was at His trial after the arrest. I never claimed that to be a reason for His arrest.You have claimed that I ignored Jesus' Temple action, and you have claimed that I gave John 18:36 as a reason for His arrest. Neither is true.

You see Phat, pure fruit and nut.

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So you brought up Jesus claiming Kingship. I replied to that by telling you what that meant and at no point did I ever claim that was one of the reasons he was arrested.

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Obviously you haven’t even understood the point - you were trying to DENY that was one of the reasons he was arrested.And if you bothered to read further back you would have seen this: Which of course would make it a good reason to have Jesus arrested - and Mark 12:12 even claims that that speech was the reason the Priests decided to have Jesus arrested.As I said, you need to read in context.

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I gave 2 reasons;
1/ Stirring up the population partly by saying that the Temple authorities had turned the Temple into a "den of thieves".
2/ Overturning the tables of the money changers and his other action in the Temple.
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In fact you originally claimed: Message 2670Note that this contradicts Mark 12 and does not mention Jesus’ violence in the Temple courtyard at all.

So are you saying that you think my points irrelevant? Whose thread is this anyway? You have a history of coming into faith based threads and mucking them up. (And yet Im not ignoring you.)Being an atheist, you are the one who is ignoring the suggestion that Jesus actually is the one true Gods Son. Which you deliberately ignore.It is irrelevant who holds the land deed to the Temple. Satan is the god of this world.
It is irrelevant what zeal and violence Jesus incited inside His own Fathers House. He never killed anyone. Again I ask you what you would do to squatters on your property?This topic is about choosing a faith. Neither you nor Theodoric have one. So what are you doing here?

The story clearly shows it was not his property and the people there were not squatters. But then we don't know the laws of this fantasy Roman world

Hi candle2
Let’s see if I’ve got it.
Satan can’t read minds but he knows what he’s doing when he messes with our mind.
He is not omniscient but he can monitor the activities of huge numbers of people.Or is the correct answer to “How does Satan tempt us?” “ I don’t know “?

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So are you saying that you think my points irrelevant?

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I am pointing out that they are irrelevant to the conversation you are butting into, and that I personally do not want to discuss them.

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Whose thread is this anyway

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It isn’t yours and even if it was your rudeness does not require me to talk about the subjects you personally want to discuss.

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You have a history of coming into faith based threads and mucking them up.

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I do not believe that I have ever done that.

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Being an atheist, you are the one who is ignoring the suggestion that Jesus actually is the one true Gods Son. Which you deliberately ignore

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I do not ignore that assertion, I reject it.

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It is irrelevant who holds the land deed to the Temple. Satan is the god of this world.
It is irrelevant what zeal and violence Jesus incited inside His own Fathers House. He never killed anyone. Again I ask you what you would do to squatters on your property?
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Perhaps you can explain why a person who supposedly teaches non-violence resorts to fruitless violence. That at least is a question which does not hinge on your faith commitments.

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This topic is about choosing a faith. Neither you nor Theodoric have one. So what are you doing here?

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I came here to comment on the topic. Even if the discussion has drifted since then my d contribution to that has been relatively small - at least I am answering GDR who started the thread rather than trying to bully other posters into talking about what I want them to talk about.

Pollux, it is not that difficult to figure out. I know exactly
how Satan works.I cannot understand why you are having such difficulty
with it.Not trying to cut you down, really.But, it seems rather simple.

Correct. I was attempting to use an analogy which supported, if not justified Jesus violent reaction inside His "family" home. We Christians who somewhat know our Bibles often speculate what meaning might have been behind a story in our Holy Book. Within the community-at-large who call themselves Christians, there are many varieties of us. Honestly as you well know, many are dishonest. Some do not even know Jesus. (old jar would always ask me what that even meant! ) EvC has science threads where everything requires objective and unbiased evidence. We also have a Bible Accuracy and Innerrancy thread where the Bible is often put on trial through objective scholarly analysis. That too is in the science forum department.If I go way back to the start of this thread, GDR framed his initial reasons for starting this thread.

GDR:

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In the “I Know that God does not exist” thread there are over 3000 posts, which had largely left the original topic so I thought that I would start a new topic on where that thread had eventually gone.
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There are two points I’d like to make.
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Firstly, I contend that there is only one cosmic intelligence that is responsible for our existence.

Secondly I suggest that the Bible was inspired.

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None of us here at this forum fully understand each other. I have often been guilty of reacting rather than responding to criticism, as to lesser degrees have we all. We are human and we often insert our emotions into logically based arguments. You and PaulK are critical thinkers by definition and practice. GDR and I, though different, are faith filled romantics. We strive to not be fantasy driven. As you might imagine, that can often be difficult for believers. Our romance, if I can label it as such, is with the character of Jesus Christ.Lets keep that fact in perspective as we attempt to communicate with atheists who are often thrown off by our passion to defend our faith. Though it is fair game to introduce logic and facts as you know them, keep in mind that this thread was started in Faith & Belief and is not governed by evidence and logic to the exclusion of passion for the stories and a desire to share passion and not necessarily cold and lifeless objectivity.
GDR often tries to play both sides against the middle, attempting to agree with you while maintaining his integrity. PaulK calls him out on this, and I joined in...not realizing I was unwelcome.But as to your comment, what do you mean "fantasy" Roman World? Do you mean the apologetic believers narrative in general or do you mean something else?

Irrelevant to the current conversation. The Roman World of the bible does not represent the reality of the historical Roman World.

Mark 12:12 has the Temple authorities being afraid of the crowd of Jesus followers. They fear the crowd in that setting.
Their concern was that Jesus was stirring up problems for them by denouncing the corruption in the Temple and as a result it would be very likely that the citizens would cease buying doves and other animals for sacrifice and cease the need for the money changers as well.His Temple action of overturning the tables of the money changers and of those selling doves was a symbolic action denouncing the corruption and what Jesus considered to be a contradiction to the desire and nature Yahweh. He quoting, quoting Isaiah 56:7 says that the Temple was to be a house of prayer but that they had made it a den of thieves.If you want to call Jesus violent because He overturned the tables and made life difficult for them for a short period of time that's fine. However, it certainly pales in contrast to the violence that he was denouncing and was endemic in that world.I have no idea what else you are looking for beyond that than going around and around trying to score some meaningless debating points.

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Mark 12:12 has the Temple authorities being afraid of the crowd of Jesus followers. They fear the crowd in that setting.
Their concern was that Jesus was stirring up problems for them by denouncing the corruption in the Temple and as a result it would be very likely that the citizens would cease buying doves and other animals for sacrifice and cease the need for the money changers as well.

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That is simply your interpretation - and a biased one at that. But it is still the case that Mark attributes the decision to that speech - which includes accusations of murder and implicit death threats.

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If you want to call Jesus violent because He overturned the tables and made life difficult for them for a short period of time that's fine. However, it certainly pales in contrast to the violence that he was denouncing and was endemic in that world

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That it was an act of violence is simple fact. And acts of violence are inconsistent with a rejection of violence.

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I have no idea what else you are looking for beyond that than going around and around trying to score some meaningless debating points.

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That seems to be more your style.