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Author Topic:   Choosing a faith
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 2791 of 3694 (912260)
08-22-2023 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2790 by GDR
08-22-2023 5:03 PM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
quote:
I am not at all clear about what I said that you are referring to
I will apologise for the typo it is 18:36
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world…
It would help if you actually remembered the conversation instead of forgetting the parts where you made serious errors,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2790 by GDR, posted 08-22-2023 5:03 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2795 by GDR, posted 08-22-2023 8:56 PM PaulK has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2792 of 3694 (912261)
08-22-2023 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2785 by Phat
08-22-2023 3:09 PM


Re: under the right circumstances
All of your response is irrelevant and an attempt to not answer.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2785 by Phat, posted 08-22-2023 3:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2794 by Phat, posted 08-22-2023 8:54 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Pollux
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 2793 of 3694 (912262)
08-22-2023 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2773 by candle2
08-22-2023 11:50 AM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
Sorry candle 2 but I still don’t know how Satan tempts me. I hear no voices in my ear, no being stands before me, and my heart has nothing to do with my thoughts.
So how does he do it?
Does he read my mind and then manipulate my cerebral synapses? If so how?
Bringing others to tempt me only pushes the problem onto them.
How much omniscience and omnipresence does he have?
I can’t recall any texts to show his fellow angels can tempt people. Is there one?
In 2 Sam 24 it is God who stirs up David to number Israel. The subsequent punishment of killing 70,000 men plus presumably women and children for doing it seems a tad over the top.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2773 by candle2, posted 08-22-2023 11:50 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2808 by candle2, posted 08-23-2023 3:44 PM Pollux has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2794 of 3694 (912263)
08-22-2023 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2792 by Theodoric
08-22-2023 5:41 PM


Re: under the right circumstances
Its easy to handwave away something you don't understand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2792 by Theodoric, posted 08-22-2023 5:41 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2796 by Theodoric, posted 08-22-2023 9:39 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2795 of 3694 (912264)
08-22-2023 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2791 by PaulK
08-22-2023 5:11 PM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
PaulK writes:
I will apologise for the typo it is 18:36
Thanks but then I wonder you follow it up with this.
PaulK writes:

It would help if you actually remembered the conversation instead of forgetting the parts where you made serious errors,
It is hard to know what you are referring to when you quote the wrong verse by mistake.
Anyway we are talking about the Kingdom and you quoted John 18:36.
Here is the verse from the New Revised Standard.
quote:
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here."
I agree that more translations use "of" rather than "from" . So even if we use the word "of" we can still in the context of the entire NT understand it more clearly as when it is translated as "from" which modern Christian scholars generally do. .
I mentioned when we discussed this before that we can just look at the opening of the Lord's Prayer. Jesus told us to pray like this.
"Our Father in Heaven. Your Kingdom come on Earth as in heaven." Jesus is talking about a heavenly Kingdom coming to Earth.
This of course brings up the issue of who are the citizens of this Kingdom. I suggest that it is those the have taken on board a life based on the Golden Rule. That is just an opinion.
Paul defines the Kingdom this way in Romans 14:17.
quote:
For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
In that verse Paul is contrasting an Earthly Kingdom to a Heavenly Kingdom that has come to Earth.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2791 by PaulK, posted 08-22-2023 5:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2797 by PaulK, posted 08-23-2023 12:10 AM GDR has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 2796 of 3694 (912265)
08-22-2023 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2794 by Phat
08-22-2023 8:54 PM


Re: under the right circumstances
What don't I understand? Your original question has been shown to be meaningless and stupid.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2794 by Phat, posted 08-22-2023 8:54 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2797 of 3694 (912266)
08-23-2023 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 2795 by GDR
08-22-2023 8:56 PM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
quote:
It is hard to know what you are referring to when you quote the wrong verse by mistake.

As I said it would be easier if you remembered the verses we were discussing,
The rest of your post is irrelevant to your point. Do you not agree that that particular saying, attributed to Jesus discussion with Pilate comes too late to be relevant to the decision to arrest Jesus?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2795 by GDR, posted 08-22-2023 8:56 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2798 by GDR, posted 08-23-2023 1:12 AM PaulK has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2798 of 3694 (912268)
08-23-2023 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 2797 by PaulK
08-23-2023 12:10 AM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
Of course. He had already been arrested. It was the Jewish authorities who were trying to make a case to Pilate that Jesus was claiming to be king of the Jews with the inference that Caesar wasn't.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2797 by PaulK, posted 08-23-2023 12:10 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2799 by PaulK, posted 08-23-2023 1:21 AM GDR has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2799 of 3694 (912269)
08-23-2023 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 2798 by GDR
08-23-2023 1:12 AM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
quote:
Of course. He had already been arrested.
Therefore your assertion that this saying was relevant to the decision to have Jesus arrested was a misrepresentation.
So that’s one example - which did not require any special claim of authority on my part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2798 by GDR, posted 08-23-2023 1:12 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2804 by GDR, posted 08-23-2023 2:33 PM PaulK has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2800 of 3694 (912271)
08-23-2023 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2787 by PaulK
08-22-2023 3:15 PM


Re: Understanding the Bible in context
People who read it carefully are better qualified than people who don’t - and assume that it agrees with them.
Im guessing that you would even go so far to say that an unbiased atheist could describe the meaning of the Bible better than a (biased) Christian.
If so, why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2787 by PaulK, posted 08-22-2023 3:15 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 2801 of 3694 (912272)
08-23-2023 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 2781 by PaulK
08-22-2023 2:47 PM


Re: under the right circumstances
Phat:
It would matter in the sense of what sort of communion was conducted in the Temple
PaulK:
In other words it’s completely irrelevant to the conversation.
Granted my late arrival to the train of thought between you and GDR is irrelevant. That train had already left the station.
My point assumes that the Temples actual purpose is human attempt at Holy Communion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2781 by PaulK, posted 08-22-2023 2:47 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2802 by PaulK, posted 08-23-2023 7:46 AM Phat has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 2802 of 3694 (912274)
08-23-2023 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2801 by Phat
08-23-2023 7:06 AM


Re: under the right circumstances
If you want to head off on your own rabbit trail, why not just start a new thread? Which I can happily ignore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2801 by Phat, posted 08-23-2023 7:06 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2812 by Phat, posted 08-23-2023 10:21 PM PaulK has replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 850
Joined: 12-31-2018
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2803 of 3694 (912277)
08-23-2023 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 2761 by Phat
08-20-2023 9:49 AM


Re: Faith vs Evidence.
Phat, they do ask me how do I know that the Bible is
accurate.
The big difference it that taxpayers are not being forced
to pay for our (creationism) beliefs.
Taxpayers are being forced to pay for the belief (based
solely on faith) of atheists. No evidence.
However, It isn't that they turned it around on me. It is that
I have turned it around on them.
I have never told anyone to turn or burn.
The world is not in the current mess because we follow
God's laws.
Who would start a war if they loved their neighbors as
Themselves?
I refer to agape love, which is the highest form of love.
"The love of God for man and of man for God. Also, the
same degree of love for each other.
The world will find itself at the edge of extinction
because of the lack of true love for each other, and
for God.
I fail to see how the world would not be significantly
better if we all were to stop stealing, lying and committing
adultery, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2761 by Phat, posted 08-20-2023 9:49 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2804 of 3694 (912278)
08-23-2023 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2799 by PaulK
08-23-2023 1:21 AM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
PaulK writes:
Therefore your assertion that this saying was relevant to the decision to have Jesus arrested was a misrepresentation.

So that’s one example - which did not require any special claim of authority on my part.
I have gone through all of my posts to you and I can't find any case where I ever quoted that verse. (John 18:36]. How about you show me where I ever made the claim that you are accusing me of making.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2799 by PaulK, posted 08-23-2023 1:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2805 by PaulK, posted 08-23-2023 2:49 PM GDR has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2805 of 3694 (912279)
08-23-2023 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2804 by GDR
08-23-2023 2:33 PM


Re: Does God allow genocide or even commit genocide under the right circumstances
quote:
I have gone through all of my posts to you and I can't find any case where I ever quoted that verse. (John 18:36]. How about you show me where I ever made the claim that you are accusing me of making.
It was Message 2741 though you will have to read it in context
Yes, but He was never talking about an earthly king such as Herod. John in his Gospel writes this:
quote:
Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2804 by GDR, posted 08-23-2023 2:33 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2806 by GDR, posted 08-23-2023 3:04 PM PaulK has replied

  
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