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Author | Topic: Choosing a faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4
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GDR writes: Fair enough but as Bob Dylan penned "ya gotta serve somebody". You can worship God, Buddah Mohammed etc, or you can even choose power, money, sex status etc. By the definition of worship you provided earlier, I worship nothing. But I value food and water, shelter, family, friends, work and recreation, pretty much in that order. Private bathrooms rank pretty high, too. Oh, and hot showers.
So yes, I do my best to pick and choose in the Bible based upon what I see in Jesus. This is circular. Unless you're making stuff up about Jesus or listening to what other people make up, the only things you can "see" in Jesus come from the Bible. --Percy
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
ringo writes: Because it wasn't meant to be taken literally. Besides, just how do you fuel an everlasting fire or for that matter survive in one?
Why wouldn't you? ringo writes: I think you can probably work that out for yourself.
What is there to indicate that it's a parable? ringo writes: Read "The Great Divorce". No. Because the idea of "choosing" hell is idiotic.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Percy writes: I guess people can draw their own conclusions about that.
By the definition of worship you provided earlier, I worship nothing. But I value food and water, shelter, family, friends, work and recreation, pretty much in that order. Private bathrooms rank pretty high, too. Oh, and hot showers. Percy writes: I can also see that if His message of sacrificial love was applied to the world we would all be living far better lives as affirmation. This is circular. Unless you're making stuff up about Jesus or listening to what other people make up, the only things you can "see" in Jesus come from the Bible.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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GDR writes:
How do you know how the authors "meant" it to be taken?
Because it wasn't meant to be taken literally. GDR writes:
Have you never heard of miracles?
Besides, just how do you fuel an everlasting fire or for that matter survive in one? GDR writes:
If I could, I wouldn't have asked you. Why can't you answer the question?
ringo writes:
I think you can probably work that out for yourself. What is there to indicate that it's a parable? GDR writes:
I have no desire to read amplified idiocy. ringo writes:
Read "The Great Divorce". the idea of "choosing" hell is idiotic. Again, if you CAN answer, answer."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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Tangle Member Posts: 9517 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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GDR writes: I can also see that if His message of sacrificial love was applied to the world we would all be living far better lives as affirmation.
I REALLY wish you wouldn't use that kind of sickening religious language, it turns my stomach. If you could just stick to talking about people sticking to the golden rule and even "do as you would be done by" you'd have support from all quarters. You talk about "choosing a faith" and say it doesn't matter what god you choose so long as it's a "nice" one - it really doesn't matter whether you choose any god at all, what matters is what values you live your life by. Just cut out this god bollox, it's embarrassing, wasteful and irrelevant.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
ringo writes: Because it's a ridiculous question and arguing jst for the sake of arguing.
f I could, I wouldn't have asked you. Why can't you answer the question? ringo writes: the idea of "choosing" hell is idiotic.GDR writes: Read "The Great Divorce".ringo writes:
You made the statement that choosing hell is idiotic. You won't read the book so on what basis do you make that claim. I have no desire to read amplified idiocy. Again, if you CAN answer, answer. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Tangle writes: I REALLY wish you wouldn't use that kind of sickening religious language, it turns my stomach. Wow!!! My sympathies for such a sensitive stomach. I have my strongly held foundational beliefs called nonsensical, ridiculous superstition etc etc.That is often passed off as meaningful discussion and then gets several likes posted along side. Mocking the theists seems to be the point often and then is applauded. However you are physically sickened by the term "sacrificial love" The abuse that gets levelled against Phat is often downright cruel and often gets applauded as well. However you are physically sickened by the term "sacrificial love" For example:Tangle writes: You talk about "choosing a faith" and say it doesn't matter what god you choose so long as it's a "nice" one - it really doesn't matter whether you choose any god at all, what matters is what values you live your life by. Just cut out this god bollox, it's embarrassing, wasteful and irrelevant. You guys sit around congratulating each other for your atheistic beliefs but my beliefs are bollox, embarrassing, wasteful and irrelevant. If you guys want this forum to be an atheistic forum where you can sit around congratulating yourselves for not falling for all that religious nonsense then let me know and I'll be out of your hair with my drivel. CheersHe has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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nwr writes: May I recommend a book. Why I Left, Why I Stayed: Conversations on Christianity Between an Evangelical Father and His Humanist Son Tony Campolo is an Evangelical Christian, somewhat on the liberal side. You will probably see him as having views somewhat like yours. Bart Campolo is his son. He was a Christian, but he left Christianity. He is still very much a humanist. The book has alternating chapters by the two of them and where they disagree. Bart has been through the kind of issues that concern you. He has thought a lot about them. He still considers himself to be religious, but in the sense of natural religion. He now sees the natural world as all that there is. I don't know whether he will persuade you. But I think you will find that he challenges you. So give it a try. I still have the book on my Kindle, and can discuss it if you want to start a thread about it. Thanks for the recommendation. I am now finished the book and found it tremendously interesting. Actually I am kind of in the middle of the two. There are a number of things that Tony said that simply don't resonate with me. He in many ways goes further than I would on the understanding of a personal relationship Jesus along the same lines as a human friend. I think in many ways Bart has thrown out the baby with the bathwater. Tony did say something that I particularly relate to. He said on page 102: quote: He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Mocking the theists seems to be the point often and then is applauded. Mocking theists should be a constant in-your-face confrontation by any sane person. You guys peddle bullshit. Though you personally do not ascribe to all the feces pieces you are a product of that mentality; that religious mentality that has tortured humanity for millennia. You and your fellow religionists should be opposed, mocked, ridiculed until your creeds vanish from the world. Your "love for all" plank is nice and all but you arrive at it by a twisted mental exercise that ignores reality putting your personal religious fantasy in its place. The same twisted ignoring of reality that religions forced upon humanity from the start. The result being a barbaric bloody history of evil perpetrated on the people by the priests and their faithful. It needs to end. Religion must die.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9517 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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I'm telling you how I see it, you tell me how you see it.
I really do feel embarrassed and rather disgusted when I see people debasing themselves in "worship". Just to be clear, this is not just a Christian thing, when I see the revolting stuff other religions get up to I feel even worse. Your particular brand is the least worst - but have you watched the evangelicals in action? Muslims? This is predominantly an atheist/agnostic (whatever that means) at best, deist forum, you know that. You came here again to have another go, it really shouldn't be a surprise to find that your beliefs still don't find much tractions here. I am literally sickened by the idea of sacrificial love because it's so fake. You do not sacrifice yourself for the love of your neighbour do you? Have you given everything up to save humanity? You have not, like everyone, you compromise and do what you feel you can - then go down to the church and pat each other on the back. Praise the Lord! I'm sure you do more than most, but you do not love sacrificially.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
AZPaul3 writes: Mocking theists should be a constant in-your-face confrontation by any sane person. You guys peddle bullshit. Though you personally do not ascribe to all the feces pieces you are a product of that mentality; that religious mentality that has tortured humanity for millennia. You and your fellow religionists should be opposed, mocked, ridiculed until your creeds vanish from the world. Your "love for all" plank is nice and all but you arrive at it by a twisted mental exercise that ignores reality. The same twisted ignoring of reality that religions forced upon humanity from the start. The result being a barbaric bloody history of evil perpetrated on the people by the priests and their faithful. It needs to end. Religion must die. I rest my case.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Tangle Member Posts: 9517 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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GDR writes: I rest my case. First you have to make it. At the moment what we see is at best 'no case to answer' and at worst that the prosecution offered no evidence, so it's case dismissed. There's absolutely no point coming here and saying "I believe". No one give a hoot what you believe. We know that you believe what you've been taught and what you feel comfortable with. That's interesting to you but not to us. We think your beliefs - but not your values - are daft and you haven't yet given us a reason to change our mind.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
I rest my case. If your point is that religionists, expressing their views, find EvC a difficult neighborhood then your point is granted. And, yes, try as I may, things can get caustic. Point of emphasis is that the hard feelings are not so much at you, you really are a pleasant personality ... for a religious nutjob, but at your creed, and more in my case, wtf kind of mind twists lead to such ... stuff. Don't feel bad. I find pleasure in this thread because of your presence even though, at times, I want to smack some sense into you with a 2x4. I hope you feel the same. Some of that love presence would be good right now, yes? [abe] An additional point of emphasis just for full disclosure. Whenever someone skewers your … stuff … I’m going to give them a kiss. Edited by AZPaul3, . Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
First you have to make it. You guys make my case. My case was that most of you use mockery, put downs, insults etc. as a form of debate. IMHO that is usually an indication of a weak position. Edited by Admin, : Fix quote. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
AZPaul3 writes: oint of emphasis is that the hard feelings are not so much at you, you really are a pleasant personality ... for a religious nutjob, but at your creed, and more in my case, wtf kind of mind twists lead to such ... stuff. Don't feel bad. I find pleasure in this thread because of your presence even though, at times, I want to smack some sense into you with a 2x4. I hope you feel the same. Some of that love presence would be good right now, yes? OK, but I do wonder why you need to use the term nut job. And frankly I do feel the same. I consider the belief that life, and even more so conscious life, as we see and experience it, is simply the result the highly unlikely chance of it all evolving from a mindless cause to be ludicrous, but I don't see the need to argue it using insults.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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