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Author
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Topic: Choosing a faith
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 680 of 3694 (898586)
09-26-2022 3:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 677 by nwr
09-26-2022 3:40 PM
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What Does Cleverbot want of us?
It is boot strapping. In looking up the word, I couldn't help but wonder if that ties in with programming cleverbot?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 677 by nwr, posted 09-26-2022 3:40 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 705 by Percy, posted 09-27-2022 9:22 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 681 of 3694 (898587)
09-26-2022 3:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 668 by ringo
09-26-2022 12:56 PM
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Re: Developing A Relationship With Cleverbot
Phat writes: What better deity than one we all program and create?
ringo writes: And pretend to believe in. Why would we only pretend? Essentially we would be believing in ourselves, which is kinda what you all think should happen anyway. Edited by Phat, : added comment
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 668 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 12:56 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 689 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 9:46 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 690 of 3694 (898615)
09-27-2022 10:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 689 by ringo
09-26-2022 9:46 PM
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Re: Developing A Relationship With Cleverbot
Im moving all future Cleverbot stuff over to Phat Unplugged. Sometimes I like talking to Cleverbot better than humans. Well, at least so far. 
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 689 by ringo, posted 09-26-2022 9:46 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 691 of 3694 (898616)
09-27-2022 10:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 686 by GDR
09-26-2022 6:27 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
Tony was more of a humorous showman preacher, but he was much better than the Conservatives. He is moderate to liberal. Bill and Hillary were front row in his audience. Bart is an unabashed humanist, but both his Dad and I think that God is using him as a stealth operative for humanists. I have not read the book but watched the video and have talked to Bart before.
Leaving My Fathers Faith Video
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 686 by GDR, posted 09-26-2022 6:27 PM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 696 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 11:55 AM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 703 by nwr, posted 09-27-2022 4:38 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 692 of 3694 (898617)
09-27-2022 10:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 684 by GDR
09-26-2022 5:40 PM
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Cute Grandkids Perhaps
I was just curious about your faith metaphors. Oh and by the way, I'm moving the Cleverbot conversations to Phat Unplugged. I'm sorry if I was derailing your thread.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 684 by GDR, posted 09-26-2022 5:40 PM | | GDR has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 694 by GDR, posted 09-27-2022 11:10 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 695 of 3694 (898624)
09-27-2022 11:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 693 by GDR
09-27-2022 11:05 AM
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Re: What does God want of Us
I suppose but I think it is more than that. I think that being a professional Christian is very difficult. In some ways I suppose that it is a bit like being an actor who has to be in character all the time.
Sounds like politicians! In fact, that's perhaps why Christianity and Politics engaged in an unholy matrimony.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 693 by GDR, posted 09-27-2022 11:05 AM | | GDR has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 698 of 3694 (898642)
09-27-2022 1:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 696 by ringo
09-27-2022 11:55 AM
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Re: What does God want of Us
I meant a stealth Christian penetrating humanism
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 696 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 11:55 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 699 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 1:08 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 701 of 3694 (898655)
09-27-2022 3:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 700 by GDR
09-27-2022 3:14 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
GDR writes: One thing that I think Bart missed is that as a Christian we believe in a God of perfect justice and that ultimately there will be perfect justice for the mentally ill, for the abused and for everyone else as well. I don't pretend to know what that looks like but I take it on faith. In the meantime, we do what we can. In other words, if I interpret you correctly, you believe that God is good. jar always believed that GOD was complete. I'm not sure what ringo believes, but he never straight-up says he is an atheist.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 700 by GDR, posted 09-27-2022 3:14 PM | | GDR has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 707 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 9:53 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 702 of 3694 (898656)
09-27-2022 3:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 699 by ringo
09-27-2022 1:08 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
It means that even though one "leaves" Christianity, they have the Spirit and carry "it" into the secular humanist camp. They spread the message without need of mentioning "the messenger".
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 699 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 1:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 706 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 9:46 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 709 of 3694 (898711)
09-28-2022 12:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 673 by Tangle
09-26-2022 2:12 PM
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Cosmic Lottery My Arse
One point of contention between my faith and your science is an argument that you and I have discussed before. Probability and Chance as opposed to ....what would I call it? Oh yeah....God. Probability to me means a definite calculation (such as the programmed odds on a lottery ticket) whereas chance means an unknown number that is assumed to be finite rather than infinite. God is assumed to be infinite yet definite. If you know what I mean.
Tangle writes: Just as a point of fact. An atheist sees a newborn baby and sees a newborn baby. That's it. I get you. A theist should also see a newborn baby and that's it. Except that GDR is suggesting that it's human nature to assign more value to your own baby than it is to a random baby. Same thing with your wife. She should always be the prettiest girl in the room whether she is 20 or 80. Beauty should never be a probability or calculation. (1-10) "Shes" A Perfect 10!. What a believer means is that the value number is always infinite. Science always seeks to quantify everything. How can one quantify infinity?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 673 by Tangle, posted 09-26-2022 2:12 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 710 of 3694 (898713)
09-28-2022 12:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 708 by AZPaul3
09-27-2022 11:44 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
ringo writes: You have the gall to suggest that I am subverting the secular humanist "camp" with a Christian message? Subverting is not the right word. I'm thinking more of a stealth operative.
Dictonary.com writes: subvert · to overthrow (something established or existing). · to cause the downfall, ruin, or destruction of. · to undermine the principles of; corrupt. In this case, a mole would not seek to overthrow humanism so much as add to it. Only human moles can do this. AI need not apply.  Edited by Phat, : fixed broken link
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 708 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2022 11:44 PM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 711 of 3694 (898718)
09-28-2022 12:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 707 by ringo
09-27-2022 9:53 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
ringo writes: I self-identify as agnostic - but according to the broad definition of "atheist", I don't believe in any gods. Well I don't either...none of the small g ones....which in my mind are fakes or wannabes. I suppose you would put my God in that category. But don't you believe that there is One, rather than relatively many? Or do you think that the universe needs no designer? I think you once postulated that "In The Beginning....chemicals. I would assert that a chemist would precede the chemicals. And a chemist needs a brain.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 707 by ringo, posted 09-27-2022 9:53 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 712 by ringo, posted 09-28-2022 3:23 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 713 by dwise1, posted 09-28-2022 3:47 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 718 of 3694 (898740)
09-29-2022 7:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 717 by Tangle
09-29-2022 4:26 AM
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Tales Told Around Campfires
Tangle writes: The bible is only evidence that some people wrote some stories. Fair enough. We know that the book(s) were not simply dropped from the sky, falling into the lap of King James or Pope Innocent(until proven Guilty)  .
Tangle, ex Catholic writes: Many of the stories in those books are fantastical but are not regarded as metaphors - they are foundational to the belief. The early Catholics were by and large inspired by pictures etched on the walls of Cathedrals.(The Stations Of The Cross, for example) Most folks couldn't read. I guess we could thus discuss oral tradition and as jar deftly put it, Tales told 'round a campfire. At this point, the Source (the author or authors of the scroll)becomes as important as Content (what the scroll says.) If the prophet Isaiah was himself a story on a scroll, I would ask whether Isaiah was allowed at some point in time to write the scroll himself, or whether he was simply a character in a scroll written by some random guy. (Bronze Age Ex-Goatherder who learned to make scrolls, perhaps? ) I need to do a bit more research before completing this train of thought.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 717 by Tangle, posted 09-29-2022 4:26 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 728 of 3694 (898759)
09-29-2022 2:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 727 by AZPaul3
09-29-2022 1:41 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
Cleverbot is being programmed to become more human. The real question is what we are being "programmed" to do. The media is our teacher and we are but lemmings.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 727 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2022 1:41 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 730 by AZPaul3, posted 09-29-2022 2:49 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 739 of 3694 (898777)
09-29-2022 8:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 729 by Percy
09-29-2022 2:46 PM
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Re: What does God want of Us
Percy writes: "Life experience and observation" is what evidence is.
Finally some sanity.
Percy writes: What observations have you or anyone made of God or Jesus? nothing, except that they are characters in a book. Jesus is the main character for Christianity and God appears under many names in many books, as you argued. I would assert that all "gods" but one are lesser spirits. That being said, I believe that the "One" God or Spirit could be argued to touch various (though not all) people in different ways yet that is but an assumption. I make observations on changes and personal growth in myself and others.
Percy writes: We're no more rejecting the idea of an "external intelligence" (whatever that is) than we are of the idea of unicorns or oobleck. We're pointing out that you have no evidence that it's real. You are pointing out that you, "or we" (whoever that is) yourselves have no evidence and thus conclude that neither does GDR. I was at church last night, in fact. At the end, Pastor Ed Taylor made a call for anyone who had never publically received Jesus to stand up. FI felt compelled to stand, even though I obviously have publically proclaimed Jesus. Tears began to flow and I observed a heaviness lift off of or from me. By the time I left, I was joyful again. So what did I observe in myself?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 729 by Percy, posted 09-29-2022 2:46 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 742 by nwr, posted 09-29-2022 8:48 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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