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Author Topic:   I want to be convinced - an experiment
keith63
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 183 (92298)
03-13-2004 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Sarde
03-13-2004 4:53 AM


Re: My decision until further notice
I haven't read all the reply's in this post but if I may I would like to recommend Lee Strobles book "The Case for Christ" and its companion "The Case for Faith". He was an athiest who did a study in an attempt to disprove the bible and became a Christian. I know some people on this site have a problem with the book because they say Lee Stroble didn't interview those who did not believe in the Bible but I have always maintained that he represented the athiest side and was probably well aware of their arguments already. If someone else has recommended this already I apologize. If you have questions let me know. I love discussing this information but I am a high school biology teacher and don't have the time to do exaustive searches for references. If you do some searches of this site you will find some responses I have made earlier this year on the empty tomb, the apparent descrepencies in the Gospels, and evidence of the Kings of Isreal.
I can tell you what Jesus has done for me. I was on a very self distructive path and was probably on my way to prison or worse. After recommiting my life to Jesus I am now a very happy husband and father of a beautiful 22 month old. Let me know if you need information.
ps. Don't anyone give me the site discussing Lee Strobles books. I've seen them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Sarde, posted 03-13-2004 4:53 AM Sarde has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Sarde, posted 03-14-2004 1:15 AM keith63 has not replied
 Message 83 by eraofhypercolor, posted 03-23-2004 8:35 PM keith63 has replied

  
keith63
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 183 (94404)
03-24-2004 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by eraofhypercolor
03-23-2004 8:35 PM


Re: My decision until further notice
Let me start by answering the part about your friends father dying. When you read the Gospels you will find that Jesus never promised that everything would be all roses if you followed him. In fact He said you would have to "pick up your cross daily" to follow him. There is one thing that is 100% in life and that is that everyone will at some time have to die. What Jesus promised was that those who choose to follow him will only die once. And then we would take part with him in heaven for the rest of eternity. His death on the Cross paid the dept for the rest of us.
If you look on a post under the Bible accuracy section about the truth of the resurection I posted quite a few replies about the truth of the Gospels. This is one part of one.
1 Cor 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
1 Cor 4:10 We [are] fools for Christ's sake, but ye [are] wise in Christ; we [are] weak, but ye [are] strong; ye [are] honourable, but we [are] despised.
1 Cor 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
1 Cor 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
1 Cor 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, [and are] the offscouring of all things unto this day.
As you can see the apostles, who were Jesus closest friends and his chosen followers were not promised money, success or hapiness in this life. Now that's not to say in the Bible that those things are not given to people. Abraham, Issac and Jacob were all exceedingly wealthy. So were David and Solomen. What Jesus promises is that if you admit your sins and follow him, he is faithful to forgive your sins and you will be with him forever in paradise.
Let me put it this way. Most of us will live for at the most 70-90 years. But eternity is forever. As some of the writers in the bible put it "we are here for a breath, and then gone." So if we follow Jesus here on Earth we will be with him for eternity in heaven. However if you choose not to follow him you may have riches here but spend the rest of eternity in hell away from God. As Jesus puts it "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but forfiets his eternal soul?"
Now, how do I know if the Bible is true and Jesus is the correct profit? THis is a much more indepth issue. One short answer is in the fact that the entire world seems bent on getting rid of Christianity. If you believe in the Bible it says that there is a litteral satan who will do war with the saints. And we see now that the humanistic, secular world we live in seems to have no problem with the other religions except Christianity. In fact many schools will allow, and in some cases require, teaching islam or Judeism, but prohibit the teaching of Christianity. Just look at Christmas time. The ACLU is Hell bent on removing all Christian symbols from any public area, but they will readily allow any other religious symbols to be displayed. I even recently saw an article on the World Net Daily which said that Jewish people were upset because a school district banned the display of any Christian symbols, but allowed a Jewish manora to be displayed because they said it wasn't a religious symbol. If satan is real, this sounds like the kind of thing he would do.
I also believe because of the prophecy in the bible. Read Isaah 53. It is known it was written 700 years before the birth of Jesus and it exactly describes the details of Jesus life, persecution, and death. In fact in another article on the World Net Daily, they discussed how many synagogues are deleting that passage from their yearly readings.
Also the Bible says that the Isrealites would be scattered among the nations, would come back to their land (1946) and there will be a third Temple built, and there will be war until the antichrist comes up with a peace plan that actually works. If you watch the news at all you will know that all these things have either happened or are about to happen. All the materials are in storage to build the next temple. We obviously do not have peace in the Middle east. And it doesn't look like we will in the near future. I could go on and on. Maybe this should be a new thread.
Well I am pressed for time right now. Got to go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by eraofhypercolor, posted 03-23-2004 8:35 PM eraofhypercolor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by eraofhypercolor, posted 03-25-2004 4:11 AM keith63 has replied

  
keith63
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 183 (94688)
03-25-2004 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by eraofhypercolor
03-25-2004 4:11 AM


Re: My decision until further notice
I said for me life got better. The change is from within. I no longer am searching for something to fill the void I always felt. I tried the drinking and chasing women, I was a good athlete, had lots of friends yet their was always something missing. When I finally came back to my upbringing and followed Jesus that filled that void that I had. I am now satisfied with life, I am not chasing that something else which never seems to work, and I have a great peace that when I die I know where I will be going. That's what makes life better. IF I followed your line of thinking, when you become a Christian your family will never die, you will get everything you need, and you will never have problems again. Obviously that is not the case. It's the peace and knowledge that my sins have been forgivin that makes life so much better. God has changed me and that is what makes life worth living.
the following are taken from the Hopi White Feather Bear Clan creationist religion:
Have you applied the same critique used for the bible? When was this written? How do we know it is accurate? If it were written after the fact then of course it would seem accurate. I did some preliminary research and I don't find the answers to these questions.
If persecution is your premise for faith, maybe you should convert to Judaism.
I didn't say persecution was my only premise for faith. And The persecution of the Jews helps explain why the Bible is accurate. The Jews were Gods chosen people. Jesus was a Jew. The Bible says salvation comes from the Jews. However the Jews did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah so they would be persecuted. But the Bible says they would be brought back to the promise land and they will build a third temple. They are mentioned prominantly in the prophecies of the Bible and in spite of intense persecution they have persisted as a nation. This is good evidence that the Bible is correct.
I have included a site which may answer many of your questions. They even have a site on "skeptics questions"
http://www.carm.org/evidence.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions_skeptics.htm
The ACLU doesn't want allow Christian symbols in public areas. Wow, they really must be the devil.
My point here is that they seem to target only the Christian religion.
Just because a religion makes a vague statement about the future (war is almost certain to happen; it is the nature of mankind, and it doesn't take a divine entity to predict war) doesn't mean it's true.
The prophecies of the Bible could hardly be called vague. Here is a site which shows the prophecies of Isreal in the end times. It is not vague. 144,000 prophets, 7 year peace deal with Isreal, the treaty broken after 3 1/2 years. These don't sound vague!!
What is Israel’s role in the end times? | GotQuestions.org
I'd especially love to see a metaphysical argument for the existence of a god--especially the Judeo-Christian god.
This site says it better than I can.
Does God exist? | GotQuestions.org
[This message has been edited by keith63, 03-25-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by eraofhypercolor, posted 03-25-2004 4:11 AM eraofhypercolor has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by nator, posted 04-11-2004 8:39 PM keith63 has not replied

  
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