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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1066 of 1249 (901225)
11-06-2022 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1065 by Tanypteryx
11-06-2022 1:22 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
How?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1065 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-06-2022 1:22 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1067 of 1249 (901226)
11-06-2022 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 965 by Taq
10-31-2022 12:02 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
If UCD is so important to biological and medical science, why is it that you can't cite even ONE EXAMPLE of how the UCD has made a practical contribution to biological or medical science?
I searched the scientific paper you provided for a practical application of UCD. The following quotes (with emphasis added) sum up what I found therein:
"The novel patterns that we have identified MAY provide new insight into cases where studies using traditional animal models were unable to produce results that translated to humans" ....
"we note that the larger set of disease classes do have ancient origins, SUGGESTING that many non-traditional animal models have the POTENTIAL to be useful for studying many human disease genes" ...
"From an evolutionary perspective, human disease genes tend to have particularly ancient origins, suggesting that disease-causing mutations are more often identified in “older” genes ...
The implications of these observations in the context of how human disease research is conducted ARE NOT WELL UNDERSTOOD" ...
"Consequently, it MAY be possible to study disease genes in a broad spectrum of animal models" ...
"This analysis suggests that roughly 10% of all human disease genes could POTENTIALLY be better-studied in selected non-bilaterian species" ...
"While these remote animal species are less complex than humans, it is QUITE POSSIBLE that studying the most distant forms of these genes would reveal insights into the most basic functions they evolved to perform and, by extension, their relationship to human disease" ...
"Thus, this majority set of disease classes MAY also be PROMISING candidates to study in a more diverse set of animal species.
Our results imply that there MAY be utility in studying disease genes that have primarily pre-vertebrate origins in non-traditional animal models" ...
"Future efforts to extend and refine our analyses could THEORETICALLY produce methods that could direct an investigator to a set of model species that would be well-suited to studying a particular human disease gene or disease class. That said, there are MANY OBSTACLES that make this DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE AT THE PRESENT TIME
."
Did you notice the pattern of SPECULATION evident in those quotes?
Where is the description of a practical application of UCD? I couldn't find one ... all I found was lots of useless Darwinist THEORIZING about what might have happened millions of years ago and lots of useless SPECULATION.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 965 by Taq, posted 10-31-2022 12:02 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1077 by Taq, posted 11-07-2022 10:51 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1068 of 1249 (901227)
11-06-2022 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 970 by Tanypteryx
10-31-2022 7:09 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Tanypteryx writes:
And yet we use UCD anyway, because it explains the relatedness.
An explanation of the relatedness is not a practical application of UCD in medical or biological science.
Such an explanation is, in effect, just a useless story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 970 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-31-2022 7:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1069 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-06-2022 6:11 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1072 by xongsmith, posted 11-07-2022 8:38 AM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3698
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1069 of 1249 (901228)
11-06-2022 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1068 by Dredge
11-06-2022 6:07 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Of course it's useless to you.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by Dredge, posted 11-06-2022 6:07 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1070 of 1249 (901229)
11-06-2022 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 970 by Tanypteryx
10-31-2022 7:09 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Tanypteryx writes:
Well, you suck at making psychological assessments.
I recognize reality and would rather describe it accurately, than distort it as you do.
Silence.
Please be advised that you are a seriously brainwashed and clinically delusional Darwinist who is thetefore incapable of recognizing reality.
You need help and possibly psychiatric medication.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 970 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-31-2022 7:09 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16627
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1071 of 1249 (901233)
11-07-2022 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1050 by ringo
11-05-2022 12:52 PM


Re: If Spideys Exist
Of course, your analogy is misleading and irrelevant. What's your point? We can measure the earth. We can observe it from space. Flatness is not an option. How does this relate to my assertion?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1050 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:52 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1074 by ringo, posted 11-07-2022 10:45 AM Phat has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2339
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1072 of 1249 (901234)
11-07-2022 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1068 by Dredge
11-06-2022 6:07 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredgings:
An explanation of the relatedness is not a practical application of UCD in medical or biological science.
Such an explanation is, in effect, just a useless story.
NO!
Your JOB HERE is to find a single case of Medical or Biological science that reveals that UCD is NOT TRUE.
And to present a single practical application that works without it, from a second descent.
Come on! Get on it!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by Dredge, posted 11-06-2022 6:07 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1073 by Dredge, posted 11-07-2022 9:14 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1073 of 1249 (901235)
11-07-2022 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1072 by xongsmith
11-07-2022 8:38 AM


Re: UCD evidence
wrongsmith writes:
Your JOB HERE is to find a single case of Medical or Biological science that reveals that UCD is NOT TRUE.
And to present a single practical application that works without it, from a second descent.
... two fine examples of why your name has officially been changed to "wrongsmith".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by xongsmith, posted 11-07-2022 8:38 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1074 of 1249 (901246)
11-07-2022 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1071 by Phat
11-07-2022 7:26 AM


Re: If Spideys Exist
Phat writes:
Of course, your analogy is misleading and irrelevant.
Which means you can't come up with an actual objection to it.
Phat writes:
What's your point? We can measure the earth. We can observe it from space. Flatness is not an option. How does this relate to my assertion?
It's the same as your assertion. Your god could hypothetically exist - but without evidence that he does exist, he's irrelevant. To be relevant, there has to be evidence of exixtence.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1071 by Phat, posted 11-07-2022 7:26 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 1075 of 1249 (901247)
11-07-2022 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1042 by Dredge
11-05-2022 12:56 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
If no one believed evolution created those genetic similarities between species, would those genetic similarities still exist?
If life didn't evolve there is no reason why we would expect to observe a nested hierarchy. We do observe a nested hierarchy, and this is what evidences evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1042 by Dredge, posted 11-05-2022 12:56 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1076 of 1249 (901248)
11-07-2022 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1053 by Dredge
11-05-2022 6:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Likewise, if no one accepted Universal Common Descent, those genetic similarities would still exist, right?
If we discovered genetics, it would be impossible not to conclude Universal Common Descent.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1053 by Dredge, posted 11-05-2022 6:44 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 1077 of 1249 (901249)
11-07-2022 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1067 by Dredge
11-06-2022 5:59 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Did you notice the pattern of SPECULATION evident in those quotes?
Yes. It's called research. They are using common ancestry to come up with new hypotheses in biomedical research. That is a practical use.
Where is the description of a practical application of UCD? I couldn't find one ... all I found was lots of useless Darwinist THEORIZING about what might have happened millions of years ago and lots of useless SPECULATION.
That's what science is, theorizing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1067 by Dredge, posted 11-06-2022 5:59 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1083 by Dredge, posted 11-09-2022 1:14 PM Taq has replied
 Message 1092 by Dredge, posted 11-15-2022 1:18 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 1078 of 1249 (901250)
11-07-2022 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1058 by Dredge
11-05-2022 7:46 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
... until you get to the level of Phyla, at which point you realise that nested hierarchies exist only within Phyla. The different Phyla themselves don't collectively form a nest hierarchy, thus disproving the theory of UCD.
So you accept common ancestry within phyla?
Oh, by the way, entire phyla and kingdoms are rooted by phylogenies of shared genes.
Root of the universal tree of life based on ancient aminoacyl-tRNA synthetase gene duplications - PubMed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1058 by Dredge, posted 11-05-2022 7:46 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1079 of 1249 (901252)
11-07-2022 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1060 by Dredge
11-06-2022 11:35 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Darwinist assume UCD is a fact....
1. Get out of the nineteenth century. Talking about "Darwinists" just makes you look foolish.
2. Yes, assumptions are treated as fact because they are thoroughly tested.
Dredge writes:
The fact that all life contains DNA is all the genetic evidence a Darwinist need...
1. Get out of the nineteenth century. Talking about "Darwinists" just makes you look foolish.
2. The fact that all DNA is related is the evidence that all life is related.
Dredge writes:
... which makes a farce of the concept of nested hierarchies based on genetics, I should think.
You should think. If you did, you would realize that there's a LOT you don't know - and the idea that YOU know better than every biologist on earth is just laughable.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1060 by Dredge, posted 11-06-2022 11:35 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1080 of 1249 (901253)
11-07-2022 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1062 by Dredge
11-06-2022 11:56 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
Btw, I'm still waiting for your response to Message 1056.
I answered that question a long time ago. If medical science coulda/woulda/shoulda made all kinds of discoveries without depending on UCD, why haven't creationists made any discoveries based on their denial of UCD?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1062 by Dredge, posted 11-06-2022 11:56 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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