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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1096 of 1249 (901906)
11-15-2022 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1095 by Dredge
11-15-2022 2:31 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
More bs.
The blind leading the blind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 11-15-2022 2:31 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3698
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1097 of 1249 (901907)
11-15-2022 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1095 by Dredge
11-15-2022 2:31 PM


Re: UCD evidence
You should publish your findings...alert the world.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 11-15-2022 2:31 PM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7324
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 1098 of 1249 (901926)
11-15-2022 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1095 by Dredge
11-15-2022 2:31 PM


Re: UCD evidence
A research hypothesis that fails to produce an improvement in the treatment of disease is also a useless failure ... not a practical use of anything.
Dredge, stay off those meat-crackers. They make you think stupid stuff.
There are no failures in any experiment in science. The results may not be as expected, and it's leaders may convey some disappointment, but like the Michelson–Morley "failures", null results speak volumes.
Think before you inset cracker, Dredge. This is a well known and well celebrated feature of science. When we get unexpected results, when we get "failures", we learn a great deal from these "mistakes". Some of our greatest discoveries were found after years of analysing "failed" experiments. We learn from our "unproductivity".
It seems you never acquired that skill. You keep making the same mistakes over and over ...

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 11-15-2022 2:31 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1114 by Dredge, posted 11-19-2022 5:34 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 1099 of 1249 (902097)
11-17-2022 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1095 by Dredge
11-15-2022 2:31 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Medical research that fails to produce an improvement in the treatment of disease is a useless failure ...
And you keep getting stupider and stupider. Did you think at all before you bleated out that stupidity?
When a program of research "fails" to produce a miracle cure, how can you possibly know what offshoots might come from that research? Do you think the researchers just burn their notebooks and go home?
All science is built on what came before.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1095 by Dredge, posted 11-15-2022 2:31 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1100 of 1249 (902109)
11-17-2022 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1093 by Taq
11-15-2022 1:59 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Taq writes:
Guiding research is a very practical use
You're digressing. The discussion is not about theorectical approaches to research ... it's about tangible benefits in the treatment of disease.
There's nothing "practical" about using a theoretical guide for medical research that's hitherto produced zero improvements in the treatment of disease.
"using common ancestry to come up with new hypotheses" Message 1077 as a research guide has not resulted in any medical benefits for anyone. So far that particular "guide" has proven blind and useless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1093 by Taq, posted 11-15-2022 1:59 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1101 by Taq, posted 11-17-2022 4:48 PM Dredge has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1101 of 1249 (902110)
11-17-2022 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1100 by Dredge
11-17-2022 4:47 PM


Re: UCD evidence
You're digressing. The discussion is not about theorectical approaches to research ... it's about tangible benefits in the treatment of disease.
Tangible benefits come from research which is guided by UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1100 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 4:47 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 4:53 PM Taq has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1102 of 1249 (902111)
11-17-2022 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1101 by Taq
11-17-2022 4:48 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Taq writes:
Tangible benefits come from research which is guided by UCD.
Which tangible improvement in the treatment of which disease has resulted from research guided by UCD?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1101 by Taq, posted 11-17-2022 4:48 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1103 by Taq, posted 11-17-2022 4:54 PM Dredge has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 1103 of 1249 (902112)
11-17-2022 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1102 by Dredge
11-17-2022 4:53 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Which tangible improvement in the treatment of which disease has resulted from research guided by UCD?
Tons and tons of diseases. Anything that uses an animal model.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 4:53 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1104 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 5:38 PM Taq has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1104 of 1249 (902113)
11-17-2022 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1103 by Taq
11-17-2022 4:54 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1103 by Taq, posted 11-17-2022 4:54 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1105 by Taq, posted 11-17-2022 6:15 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1106 by Stile, posted 11-18-2022 8:15 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1107 by xongsmith, posted 11-18-2022 1:08 PM Dredge has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 1105 of 1249 (902115)
11-17-2022 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1104 by Dredge
11-17-2022 5:38 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD.
Animals models are used because of UCD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 5:38 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1108 by Dredge, posted 11-18-2022 4:04 PM Taq has replied
 Message 1221 by Dredge, posted 12-07-2022 12:05 AM Taq has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4184
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 1106 of 1249 (902133)
11-18-2022 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1104 by Dredge
11-17-2022 5:38 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
Using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD
"Driving a car doesn't require accepting nuts and bolts."
Say it again!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 5:38 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by Dredge, posted 11-19-2022 12:44 PM Stile has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2339
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 1107 of 1249 (902171)
11-18-2022 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1104 by Dredge
11-17-2022 5:38 PM


Re: UCD evidence
more Dredgings that are getting bombed into oblivion:
Using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD.
Getting back to the best evidence of UCD, DNA...
So which animal research doesn't require examining the DNA? Now why would that be?
Remember: You have already conceded that relatedness is measured by the similarity of DNA.
You wanted an example. COVID-19 with the mRNA vaccines would seem to use the RNA-DNA
system fairly intensively, wouldn't you say?
Now stating that using animal models doesn't require accepting the theory of UCD is like
stating that using animal models doesn't require examining their DNA.
It's like building a house without a tape measure or yardstick or ruler or even your armlength (say, about a cubit).

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by Dredge, posted 11-17-2022 5:38 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1113 by Dredge, posted 11-19-2022 12:51 PM xongsmith has replied
 Message 1222 by Dredge, posted 12-07-2022 12:10 AM xongsmith has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2088
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1108 of 1249 (902182)
11-18-2022 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1105 by Taq
11-17-2022 6:15 PM


Re: UCD evidence
1105
Taq writes:
Animals models are used because of UCD.
That is incorrect ... animal models are used bcoz they're genetically and physiologically similar to humans.
The history of how they came to genetically and physiologically similar to humans is irrelevant to their utility.
Your argument is analogous to this:
In order for a dentist to fix teeth, he must know how teeth evolved ... which is nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1105 by Taq, posted 11-17-2022 6:15 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1109 by Taq, posted 11-18-2022 4:14 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1110 by ringo, posted 11-19-2022 10:56 AM Dredge has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9088
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 1109 of 1249 (902183)
11-18-2022 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1108 by Dredge
11-18-2022 4:04 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
That is incorrect ... animal models are used bcoz they're genetically and physiologically similar to humans.
That's because of UCD.
The history of how they came to genetically and physiologically similar to humans is irrelevant to their utility.
It isn't irrelevant.
quote:
. Darwin’s description of “descent with modification” points to two aspects of evolution that can help us assess the matching between a prospective model species and its intended target. One is trees that represent the structure of phylogenetic relationships; the other is phenotypic traits, i.e. the unique characteristics of each species’ evolved biology and natural history. Mapping traits onto a phylogeny is the first step toward analyzing the source of similarities between a target and a potential model. Whether similar traits arise from shared ancestry or from adaptive convergence has important implications for what kinds of inferences can be justified, and for the likely translatability of findings.
Evolution offers both a rich source of possible models, and guidance for choosing the best ones for a given purpose. Considering model choice from an evolutionary angle not only helps to answer the question “What species might be a good model for studying x?” but also suggests additional questions we should be asking to assess the utility of both potential and current models. Recognizing the diverse ways model organisms can function expands our search image as we seek species to study that can both extend general knowledge, and generate translatable insights relevant to human neurobiology and disease.
Selection of Models: Evolution and the Choice of Species for Translational Research - FullText - Brain, Behavior and Evolution 2019, Vol. 93, No. 2-3 - Karger Publishers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1108 by Dredge, posted 11-18-2022 4:04 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1193 by Dredge, posted 12-03-2022 9:51 PM Taq has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20492
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1110 of 1249 (902210)
11-19-2022 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1108 by Dredge
11-18-2022 4:04 PM


Re: UCD evidence
Dredge writes:
The history of how they came to genetically and physiologically similar to humans is irrelevant to their utility.
And the history of how YOU came to be genetically and physiologically similar to your grandmother is irrelevant too?

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1108 by Dredge, posted 11-18-2022 4:04 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1111 by Dredge, posted 11-19-2022 12:41 PM ringo has replied

  
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