Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 62 (9094 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: d3r31nz1g3
Post Volume: Total: 901,806 Year: 12,918/6,534 Month: 201/2,210 Week: 142/390 Day: 51/47 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 2 of 1218 (891957)
02-18-2022 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tanypteryx
02-18-2022 2:42 PM


We're arguing with uneducated nutters, there's really no point.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-18-2022 2:42 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-18-2022 2:59 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 32 of 1218 (892116)
02-26-2022 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jzyehoshua
02-25-2022 9:01 PM


Re: Male & Female
Jxy writes:
rare cases of virgin births
Evidence please
Unnatural homosexual activity in nature,
How can behaviour in nature be unatural?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Jzyehoshua, posted 02-25-2022 9:01 PM Jzyehoshua has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 47 of 1218 (892575)
03-10-2022 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Tanypteryx
03-10-2022 5:12 PM


Re: Finally, we are going get the real deal
I read a few pages, it's garbage, pure ravings.
One thing impressed me though, he might be Japanese, in which case his grammar is explicable if not his thought processes.
quote:
Infographic 1: Representation of ToE. Just visualize that this snake is a King Cobra. I did not get the best and suitable FREE picture of King Cobrafor this infographic/presentation. We do not have King Cobra in our backyard in Japan, in where I live. No money for copyright to pay, either, you know. Being not funded is not a hindrance to discover great things in science.(If possible, do not kill King Cobra. Let us save them too.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-10-2022 5:12 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by xongsmith, posted 03-10-2022 6:20 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 72 of 1218 (892731)
03-12-2022 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by nwr
03-12-2022 5:17 PM


Feeble? It's incoherent gobbledegook.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by nwr, posted 03-12-2022 5:17 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 84 of 1218 (892833)
03-15-2022 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Admin
03-15-2022 2:45 PM


Re: EVOLUTION IS FALSIFIED!!!!!!!
The Boss writes:
My goal since the very beginning, and still the goal, is to foster constructive discussion between the two sides.
A worthy goal, but one that assumes that both sides are rational.
The site has not achieved this goal, and I've come to think it isn't possible
We certainly haven't seen too many many changes of mind, but it does occasionally happen. However, these days we only get the real nutters.
but it has turned a window onto human nature.
Sure has.
It has been a clash of worldviews, one seeing the world as the evidence dictates, the other seeing the evidence as what their beliefs dictate.
I refer you to my tag line..
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Admin, posted 03-15-2022 2:45 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 112 of 1218 (894805)
05-30-2022 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Dredge
05-30-2022 3:59 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
In that case, please describe how eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes. Describe the steps involved and how natural selection and environmental pressures produced each of those steps.
Grow up.
You've been told that no one knows that and probably never will. The ToE does not depend on us knowing every detail of every species' evolution over all time.
Instead we use the massive amount of evidence we DO have from fossils, geology, molecular genetics and observations of modern organisms (amongst other things) to form an overall theory of how all life forms have changed over time.
If you want to insert your god between eukaryotes and prokaryotes feel free to make yourself look really stupid.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Dredge, posted 05-30-2022 3:59 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Dredge, posted 05-30-2022 7:56 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 119 of 1218 (894814)
05-30-2022 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Dredge
05-30-2022 7:56 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
So on one hand you claim to you claim to know how evolution works, but on the other hand you admit you don't know how of the any of the macro-evolutionary transitions I mentioned proceeded.

Seems to me like your hands have built a contradiction.
You're either as stupid as you claim to be or a troll. Either way, c'ya.
quote
Can you describe how even one macro-evolutionary transition in the fossil record proceeded?
Abstract
In the past few decades, many new discoveries have provided numerous transitional fossils that show the evolution of hoofed mammals from their primitive ancestors. We can now document the origin of the odd-toed perissodactyls, their early evolution when horses, brontotheres, rhinoceroses, and tapirs can barely be distinguished, and the subsequent evolution and radiation of these groups into distinctive lineages with many different species and interesting evolutionary transformations through time. Similarly, we can document the evolution of the even-toed artiodactyls from their earliest roots and their great radiation into pigs, peccaries, hippos, camels, and ruminants. We can trace the complex family histories in the camels and giraffes, whose earliest ancestors did not have humps or long necks and looked nothing like the modern descendants. Even the Proboscidea and Sirenia show many transitional fossils linking them to ancient ancestors that look nothing like modern elephants or manatees. All these facts show that creationist attacks on the fossil record of horses and other hoofed mammals are completely erroneous and deceptive. Their critiques of the evidence of hoofed mammal evolution are based entirely on reading trade books and quoting them out of context, not on any firsthand knowledge or training in paleontology or looking at the actual fossils.
Evolutionary Transitions in the Fossil Record of Terrestrial Hoofed Mammals - Evolution: Education and Outreach

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Dredge, posted 05-30-2022 7:56 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 12:32 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 130 of 1218 (894877)
05-31-2022 1:06 PM


In France alone:
quote
The findings of an inquiry into sexual abuse and paedophilia in the French Catholic church, published last week, are difficult to read and painful to contemplate. Over the past 70 years, the Independent Commission on Sexual Abuse in the Church found that at least 216,000 children were subjected to abuse at the hands of Catholic priests and members of religious orders. Sexual exploitation within the church and associated institutions, the commission stated, had been a “massive phenomenon”. Beyond immediate family and friends, the prevalence of sexual violence in the church outstripped that in any other social environment.
The Guardian view on sexual abuse and the Catholic church: contrition is not enough | Editorial

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-31-2022 1:40 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 135 of 1218 (894892)
05-31-2022 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
05-31-2022 2:46 PM


Re: It wasn't the myths
Making the best of a terrifically shite thing, the religious period was probably a necessary evolutionary stage to get to the final sapiens bit is H. sapiens sapiens+. To be fair, in evolutionary terms, 5,000 years? That's not even a fart in the bath.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 05-31-2022 2:46 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 144 of 1218 (894908)
06-01-2022 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by dwise1
06-01-2022 5:44 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Troll is more accurate. He's not stupid, he's just a twat.

Edited by Tangle, .


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by dwise1, posted 06-01-2022 5:44 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by dwise1, posted 06-01-2022 6:03 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 148 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 8:25 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 159 of 1218 (894951)
06-03-2022 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Dredge
06-03-2022 12:32 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Troll writes:
Fail. The link you provided doesn't answer my question. It presents evidence of certain evolution transitions, but doesn't mention one word about HOW nature actually produced any of those transitions.
So, before I waste more of my time, have you accepted that those transitions *did* happen?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 12:32 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 2:36 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 162 of 1218 (894957)
06-03-2022 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Dredge
06-03-2022 2:36 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Troll writes:
Irrelevant to my argument.
But highly relevant to mine and the ToE. If you don't accept that those transition happened there's little point me explaining how.
So do you?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 2:36 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 3:45 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 165 of 1218 (894965)
06-03-2022 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Dredge
06-03-2022 3:45 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Troll writes:
Au contraire, by explaining how, you can demonstrate that you know how evolution works. So by all means, fire away - please describe the process involved in the evolution of a novel body plan or organ.

But it's impossible for anyone to describe any such process, bcoz said processes happened millions of years ago and cannot be repeated ... which is why I argue that no one can claim to know how evolution works.
I've shown you the evidence that science has for the evolution of hoofed mammals. Having read that (ha!) do you accept that hoofed mammals evolved in that way?
If you do, we can move on to the how of evolution.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2022 3:45 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2022 12:54 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 169 of 1218 (894977)
06-04-2022 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Dredge
06-04-2022 12:54 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Troll writes:
You keep trying to steer the discussion from knowing HOW evolution happens.
I'm don't need a discussion on it I just need you to say whether you accept the evidence that evolution has happened or not. Yes or no is fine. Why so shy?
You know no one can describe HOW novel body plans and organs actually evolve, but you can't bring yourself to admit it.
Answer my question and we can then get into the how of evolutionary theory.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2022 12:54 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2022 1:37 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 190 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 9:34 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8789
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 177 of 1218 (895002)
06-05-2022 5:27 PM


Just wondering marc, where is your equivalent of the fossil record? Where is your geology, palaeontology, molecular genetics, embryology? Where is your taxonomy and cladistics?
In short, we've shown you ours, you show is yours.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-05-2022 6:27 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 180 by marc9000, posted 06-05-2022 8:09 PM Tangle has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2022 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022