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Author | Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
As a bare minimum, go to Wikipedia:
Give it a read, get your head around it. It's real and spectacularly widespread. Not to mention totally uncaused by mankind.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Seriously ? If you abide by my word, you will be free ?
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Regardless, I shall present my argument one more time Here is a definition of "argument" (first result from a Google search): "a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory." What you have set out is a list of three bald assertions - no reasons or sets of reasons. And as we all know, in the absence of evidence, a bald assertion is, in the vast majority of cases, a lie or a delusion. We have tons of evidence - a gnat's whisker would outweigh yours.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Another possibility is that a bunch of increasingly desperate churches and religious institutions are pumping millions into his bank account, having finally found a scientist who is willing to sell out ? It'd be interesting to see what house he lives in and what car he drives. Might do a bit of research...
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Please speak English. ​ "Ontogeny" has something to do with dentistry, doesn't it? What does dentistry have to do with evolution? Percy is speaking English. Here is a definition of ontogeny:
The process of individual development from a single cell, an egg cell or a zygote, to an adult organism is known as ontogeny. You could, you know, try looking things up and learning something occasionally.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Proof is a concept which applies only in mathematics. Evidence is what applies in science.
Have a read of this. Have a go at trying to understand it. Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Once again Dredge, proof is not a concept that exists in science - only falsifiable hypotheses backed by evidence.
Read this article - it'll give you a start at understanding what you're trying to attack.
Until you understand what you're trying to attack, you're just Don Quixote, tilting at windmills.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Once again, science does not work with proofs - it works with falsifiable hypotheses, supported by evidence. Science does not prove anything - it provides the best current explanations for phenomena, which refine and evolve as our understandings and capabilities grow. Scientific proof is not a concept which exists - you're lying to people who know you are lying, and you've got nowhere to go other than to repeat the lies.
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Well I've spent a few mins on Google and have dug this up so far:
When I've got time I'll do a bit more research and see where his fortune comes from. Looks like my guess may be correct. (I'm a lawyer, and understand how the grotty world of mega wealth works. I'm also intelligent and understand how science works. Which is why I don't believe that the universe has to be simple enough for me to understand it. I trust intelligent scientists to get it right, rather than moronic religious fanatics who believe they have to be right, or else they won't get to their bronze age invented fictitious afterlife.)Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Never litigated one.
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Only around 5% of lawyers are involved with litigation. The rest of us deal with contracts and similar.
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Once again, science does not deal in proof. It deals in falsifiable hypotheses supported by evidence.
And we can show that science works. We have successful medical treatments; we have sat nav; we have computers; we have machinery; we have cosmology and amazing telescopes; we have buildings, roads, railways, ships, aeroplanes; we have radar; we have electricity; we have an incredible amount of evidence that science works, based on its falsifiable hypotheses and its evidence. Science has never proved a single thing - and yet scientists know their stuff. If they didn't, none of what we get from science would work. When we say scientists know something, we are not saying they've proved it - we are saying they have mountains of evidence to demonstrate the validity of the relevant hypotheses. You have nothing other than a conman's word games.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Language is one of the most fluid and multi-faceted tools which we have evolved - and it continues to evolve over time.
The word "set" is listed as having 430 different meanings in the 1989 edition of the Oxford English dictionary. It's the same three letters, but is used differently in different contexts. The same is true of other words - including knowledge and proof. What we are doing is pointing out to you the specific meanings of and contexts in which knowledge, proof, evidence, falsifiability and tentativity are used in science. You're just picking different contexts and seeking to apply those contexts to science (a field about which you clearly know nothing). Let's take proof. The word is used differently in law courts and mathematics. In mathematics, it is used to demonstrate a mathematical and logical certainty which cannot be refuted. In law courts, it just means that you've got sufficient evidence to convince a jury. (If, in a legal context, it meant the logical certainty which the word bears in mathematics, then we'd never have successful appeals or overturned verdicts or miscarriages of justice, would we - and yet we do). Words have multiple meanings - not just the one's ferreted away in your conman's playbook.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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One of the things us humans have to wrestle with is our inability to properly conceptualise big numbers. A good example of this is asking people how long it would take them to construct a cubic metre out of cubic centimetre Lego pieces. A lot of people just reply that it would take them maybe an afternoon of work.
Then you do the maths. There are 100x100x100 square centimetre pieces in a square metre. Assume it takes you a second a piece (and that's working fast, with no breaks and no mistakes). It would take you one million seconds. That works out to 278 hours. Assuming you put in an 8 hour day, that's just under 35 days. It's the same thing with evolution. Unless you do the maths, your head just assumes that it can perceive billions of years - but, (unless you're wired unusually), it can't. The handlers of the world's creationists rely heavily on this to sell them their snake oil.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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vimesey Member Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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What's depressing is that people will listen to him and choose to believe him, even though he can be proven wrong. (Not to mention that he's a convicted tax dodger and wife beater).
Goes to show how bad things have gotten. Ah well, we'll keep on trying.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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