Choosing a faith

ICANT, you posted:Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident,
knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are
absent from the Lord:
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7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
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8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent
from the body, and to be present with the Lord** Paul does not say that to be absent from the body is to
be present with the Lord. Nowhere does Paul state that
we are instantly with the Lord when we die.Paul had been beaten many times, even to the point of
death. He was growing tired of the prisons and beatings.He, however, did not want to be naked or unclothed. To do
so meant death, or, if you wish, a disembodied spirit.But, regardless of how you view it, those who are naked or
unclothed know nothing. They are totally unaware of
anything. They are dead.The Bible clearly states this.This was Paul's second letter to the Corinthians. In his
first letter he made it clear that we are to receive our
new body at the resurrection.Paul was expounding on his first letter.Paul tells us in 1Corinthians 15:45-48 that our body is a
natural body. Our resurrected body will not be fashioned
like Adam, but a heavenly body, like Christ.God's elect are nor resurrected individually. They are
resurrected as a community, at the last trump. This is
when they receive the Heavenly body. Not before.Paul was simply expressing his greater desire to be with
the Lord.Abraham, Moses, Noah, and the other great men of faith
all died without having received the promise. But, you can
rest assured that, although they are unaware of even the
pasage of time, God has them.When resurrected it will seem to them that they had just
went to sleep.Nowhere does Paul say that we go immediately to heaven.I, much like you, quoted this same scripture. However, I
was forced to face the fact that it did not say what I was
lead to believe.I can easily fit this scripture with the fact that the dead
know not anything. And that they are incapable of
forming a single thought.

ICANT, you wrote:"I would still like to see your evidence that there will be a
second chance for anyone after they die a physical death
here on earth."**No one gets a second chance. Everybody gets one
calling. However, people are called in various ages.This will take a few posts from me; so, be patient.Those who are called are the predestinated ones
mentioned in Romans 8:29-30 and Ephesians 1:5,11.These are the same ones who God reveals the meanings
of His parables. To others parables are meant to disguise
the true meanings.The ones who are called during this present age must
conform during this present lifetime. They know for a
certainty that they are both asked and prepared to rule
with Christ when He sets up His Kingdom.Each one called is encouraged and instructed by the
elders and others. They have access to God's Holy
Spirit. They know for a fact that they have been called
for this purpose.Those who walk away from this calling have blown
their opportunity for eternal life. The pull of this world and
Satan is strong.The fate of these is described in Hebrews 10:26-27.26. "For if we sin willfully after we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a
sacrifice for sin.27. But a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and
fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries."Those who turn their back to God and His calling are no
different than the angels who rebelled against Him.Everybody gets one calling.

Well there's a clue in what your predecessors with the same beliefs would have thought of me; do you prefer burning or stoning of heretics?

Well, so far he's being bludgeoned with the jaw of an ass.

Hi Tangle, I prefer neither. I would like to see all men, women, and children in the world
receive the full pardon that has been offered too them.But that will never happen as there are too many people that know what they believe and the facts don't matter.God Bless,

Well that's terribly modern of you, but nice to hear that you've abandoned some of the nastier demands of your boss.
​ Facts? You have facts? Well why didn't you say so? You've just spent pages arguing literary criticism of a 2,000 year book of mythology. Show us these facts.

Hi Candle2, Then explain to me what this verse means then.

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2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

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Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

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He was tormented in the flame.

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28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

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He remembered his brothers while in Hell.That rich man was in Hell and knew He was tormented in the flame and he did not want his brothers to come to that place of torment.That means he knew things and remembered things.I have ask before and I ask again where is your supporting evidence?God Bless,

Hi Tangle, The invitation is to whosoever will.

You forgot the other part of his post where he asked you to present your facts, you know the ones that don't actually exist as there is no factual basis to any religion they are all faith based. You can lie to yourself but we all can see through your lies.

ICANT, you wrote;I would still like to see your evidence that there will be a
second chance for anyone after they die a physical death
here on earth.Something came up yesterday. It will take me several days
to deal with it.I will send you some of the Biblical evidence right now.
Some evidence must wait until I have the time sit down
with my Bible. Right now I am going by memory. If I make
a mistake, I will correct it later.First off read Hebrews 8:6-12. Don't read into it. Just read
what it says.Notice that God will put His laws into our minds, and
write them on our hearts.It states that we will ALL know Him; from the least to the
greatest.God states that He will be merciful to our unrighteousness.
He will remember them no more.The first to have His laws written are the righteous men
and women in the OT. Next are those in the NT. All that
God called out from The death of Christ until His return
also have it written in their hearts.Those who are alive when He returns, as well as those
born during His reign on earth, will have His laws put
ino their mind and heart.Finally, those in the second resurrection will have the
same done to them.Even those who attended church regularly, but did not
have His laws stamped into their heart will be among
those in the second resurrection.What does for one He will do for all. But it will be at the
time God has appointed for them.God is no respecter of persons.No one can come to God without first being called.Also read 1 Peter 15:15-17 God here states that He will
return to Jerusalem so that the "rest of mankind" may
seek Him.Read Isaiah 2;1-4?Read Romans 11:7-10, 32.Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is
no other name under heaven given among men by which
we "must" be saved.Without Bible dictionary I do not recall the exact Greek
word "must" is from.However, there are many other NT scripture that contain
this same word. And, in these instances an act, deed, or
circumstance "must" be accomplished. I will quote them
when I can.God will do His absolute best to save all of mankind. But
being that it must a choice by each of us, some will be
too proud to acquiesce.I will continue with this later this week.

Hi Tangle,I am sorry I did not get to your second question. I got several facts that don't seem to matter.Fact #1 No one knows what existed at T=0.
Fact #2 The BBT says there was no space, no time, no matter, no energy.
Fact #3 All space, time, matter, energy existed in something the size of a pea.
Fact #4 The only place that little pea sized universe could exist was in
.......somebody's mind as there was non existence
Fact #5 In non existence that little pea sized universe would not exist.
Fact #6 There is no mechanism by which that little pea sized universe could begin ......to exist from non existence.The Planck Era, from zero to T^-43 is the closest physics
can get to zero at which point the universe spans a region of only10^-35meters.Fact #7 Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. Moses around 1581BC.Fact #8 Ultimately, around 1620 the English doctor and creationist scientist William Harvey (1578– 1657) found the circulation of blood pumped throughout the body by the heart. Blood preserves and supports life by transporting nutrients to every cell of the body and taking away wastes. In this way the life of the flesh is in the blood.Fact #9 Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Isaiah 8th century BCThe earth has a circle around it that God sits on.
God stretched out the heavens like a tent. If you have ever stretched out a tent you will understand it needs to be stretched in every direction making a volume inside.The earliest people that believed in a round earth was the contemporary Brahmans of India who believed in a spherical Earth as the center of the universe.Edwin hubble discovered the universe was expanding in 1929.Fact #10 The first week is recorded in Genesis 1:5 through Genesis 2:2.Fact #11 Genesis 7:11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Hebrew word מעינת transliteration mayn meaning fountain, well, spring.Fact #12 It took until 1977 for science to find ocean springs off Ecuador's coast that proved that such large bodies of water do indeed contains fountains spewing liquids (see The Medusa and the Snail by Lewis Thomas).God Bless,

What on earth has all that got to do with anything at all?

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I got several facts that don't seem to matter.

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The fact that Genesis goes straight from introducing Adam’s son Seth and Seth’s son Enosh to a genealogy of Adam’s descendants through Seth and Enosh doesn’t seem to worry you. (4:25-5:32)But let’s look at your list.

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Fact #1 No one knows what existed at T=0.

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That matters, it just doesn’t do anything much to help you.

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Fact #2 The BBT says there was no space, no time, no matter, no energy.

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Not a fact. Just something you made up.

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Fact #3 All space, time, matter, energy existed in something the size of a pea.

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Not quite correct. There was no matter, there was no “something” other than space itself. Better to state “our universe was the size of a pea”.

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Fact #4 The only place that little pea sized universe could exist was in
.......somebody's mind as there was non existence

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Self-contradictory nonsense is not a fact. Either space and energy existed or they did not. You try to have it both ways.

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Fact #5 In non existence that little pea sized universe would not exist.

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So even you know that your “Fact #4” can’t be a fact.

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Fact #6 There is no mechanism by which that little pea sized universe could begin ......to exist from non existence.

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So the fact that the Big Bang Theory doesn’t say that it did “begin ......to exist from non existence” is sort of relevant.

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Fact #7 Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. Moses around 1581BC.

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Aside from the fact that the authorship and dates are highly questionable, what is the relevance of this?

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Fact #8 Ultimately, around 1620 the English doctor and creationist scientist William Harvey (1578– 1657) found the circulation of blood pumped throughout the body by the heart. Blood preserves and supports life by transporting nutrients to every cell of the body and taking away wastes. In this way the life of the flesh is in the blood.

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Oh. I see. It’s the standard apologist trick of trying to equate Biblical claims with scientific. But Harvey’s discovery does not support an vitalistic understanding of the role of blood and certainly does not justify blood sacrifice.The fact that Christians resort to these fallacious arguments is just one more count against Christianity.

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Fact #9 Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Isaiah 8th century BC

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Isaiah 40 is likely written by another hand in the 6th Century BC. It’s a poetic image, and if read literally (as it should not be) it implies a flat, geocentric Earth with no concept of the universe as we know it.So an even worse example of the apologists trick sine it relies on misrepresenting the Bible.

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Fact #10 The first week is recorded in Genesis 1:5 through Genesis 2:2.

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This is not a fact. The story is a myth.

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Fact #11 Genesis 7:11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Hebrew word מעינת transliteration mayn meaning fountain, well, spring.

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This is another myth and not a fact. The most relevant part is that it confirms the belief that the sky (“heaven”) was solid and held back “the waters above the Earth” as described in Genesis 1:6-7

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Fact #12 It took until 1977 for science to find ocean springs off Ecuador's coast that proved that such large bodies of water do indeed contains fountains spewing liquids (see The Medusa and the Snail by Lewis Thomas).

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Oh look, it’s that apologist’s trick again.

ICANT, l have a few minutes this morning before
heading out.Ezekiel 37 tell about the dry bone resurrection of the
whole house of Israel and Judah.I have heard preachers give various interpretations of
what Ezekiel is trying to say here.All one has to do is to read it with an open mind. It is
written in such simple terms that all should be capable
of understanding it.Ezekiel describes the second resurrection. Here he speaks
specifically about the House of Israel, as well as Judah (Jews).In verse 10 Christ commands all who were ot in the first
resurrection to come forth.Verse 11 states that they died without hope. They were lost,
and cut off from God's Holy Spirit.Verses 13-14 states that they were brought forth their
graves as flesh and blood humans. God gives them access
to His Holy Spirit, as well as what He is offering them.My forefathers came from Scotland (Manasseh).David (at this time) is king over all of them.This is the time when God establishes His covenant with
them. Verse 26.He will put His laws in their minds, and write them on their
hearts.All the Gentiles, who were not in the first resurrection, will
also be resurrected at this time.All the nations will know the Lord. Israel will be example
for them to follow.I don't know if I posted 2Peter 3:9 yesterday or not, but
here it is:"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some
count slackers, but is long-suffering (patient, and capable
of bearing insults, rejections) toward us, not willing (intent,
disposed, minded, determine, plan, desire) that any should
perish (apollumi, destroy fully) but that all should come
to repentance.

ICANT, although the Bible does not use the term "second
resurrection", it does mention the first resurrection,
implying tha there will be others. There are, in fact, three.The second resurrection everybody who have not been
called by God. It involves everyone from Adam till the
last human to die before Christ returns.They are resurrected for the Great White Throne judgement.For them the books (Biblos-Bible) was opened, as well as
the book of life.The Bible was opened to their understanding. For the
first time they are being called. The book of life was also
opened for them. This is their first and only opportunity to
have their names added to it.Notice that this is not a sentencing; it is a judgement, with
their eyes opened, and they will experience an evaluation.
This is the time to demonstrate their conversion.Remember 1 Timothy 2:4 "Who desires all men to be
saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."There is a third resurrection that is mentioned (not by name)
in Revelations 20:14-14. The book of life is not opened
to them.This resurrection consists of the incorrigible wicked, as
well as those who walked away from their calling while
living. They do not get a second opportunity.One thing that will happen during the 1000 year reign of
Christ on earth is it will be prepared for the billions who
come up in the second resurrection. I do not have time to
go into this now.