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Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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candle2 writes: Ringo, you say that evolutionists do not deal with proof.And, you are 100% right. There is no proof of evolution. See, we agree. There is also no proof for the thousands of scientific theories that you do accept, like the Germ Theory of Disease.
Evolutionists do not have evidence that creationists don't have. Everyone has access to the same evidence. The interpretation is different. That's false. Creationists more often than not refuse to interpret the evidence, or interpret it in a way that has no connection to the actual evidence.
In any event, evolutionists have faith, and nothing more, that their views are right. We have evidence, not faith.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Phat writes: Yes, I believe so. God is confidant and secure there. He does not fear disagreement. If our freedom is the the cause of evil then there will also be evil in heaven.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Phat writes: Our freedom caused the actualization of hypothetical evil. God foreknew (in the parable) that humans would choose self actualization before they chose Jesus(Tree of Life) There will be no such battle in Heaven. So people can't choose to do evil in heaven?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Phat writes: Because we have willfully allowed it. God respects our free will so much that He won't simply take the evil away from us. Why couldn't we willfully allow it in heaven?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Phat writes: Are you seriously asking that question? For the same reason that we can't smoke pot at grandma's house. What's stopping us from smoking pot at grandma's house? We can if we choose. If there is a reason not to commit evil, then it would apply equally to our time on Earth as it does in our time in Heaven. If we are incapable of committing evil in heaven, then why not make the Earth that way to begin with?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Tangle writes: I asked whether freewill also exists in heaven. If freewill does not exist in heaven and there is no evil, why does evil need to exist here? Heaven seems to break a lot of Christian theology. We are told that pain, suffering, and death exist on Earth because life would not be worth living if those things did not exist. A strange theology, but let's go with it. If that is correct, then will there be pain, suffering, and death in Heaven? Not by most accounts. So would Heaven be a terrible place to live? According to Christian theology, it would be a terrible place to live, especially now that we don't have free will, it would appear. At this point, we have to ask why Earth even exists to begin with. Why not just start us out in Heaven?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Phat writes: You didn't get the analogy. When in the "house" of someone whom you know and respect, you will temper your own evil/willful/rebellious tendencies. People still do evil in other peoples' houses.
In other words, if you even made the grade to be accepted in Heaven, you would have had to have met the Landlord. Building on that relationship, you would not be/do evil in Heaven. God was the landlord of the Garden of Eden and of the Earth, is he not?
Your beloved snake (who told the truth! ) was a metaphor for the truth that we can all be complete(like God) won out in human imagination and evolution. Had the Woman reached for the tree of life (I AM the vine...) God said that if Adam or Eve ate of the tree of knowledge that they would die that day. The serpent told them that God was full of it. Who was right?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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candle2 writes: Taq, a so-called theistic evolutionists is no more aChristian than a liberal man who puts on a dress and lipstick is a woman. Right. And a True Scotsman doesn't put sugar in his porridge.
God leaves nothing to chance; only humans do this. Perhaps you should read up on the difference between ontological randomness and statistical randomness. The theory of evolution, and all of science, uses statistical randomness. That is, something is considered random if it fits a statistical model of randomness. However, no one makes claims about the supernatural that could perhaps control the process in a way that is indistinguishable from randomness. If you have a problem with evolution for being random, then you will need to reject the bulk of science. For example, thermodynamics is based on randomness. Do you reject thermodynamics?
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
candle2 writes: Those who join the God family will be Spirit Beings.We will not have physical needs. Our character of outgoing love for each other will be permanent. Then why not start that way?
Now you tell me how it is possible for human beings To live in absolute joy without anything bad ever happening to them. Isn't that what heaven is?
Pain and suffering are not enjoyable but they do help us to grow and realize how much we need for Christ to return to earth and set up His Kingdom. What does there even have to be an Earth? Why not put the souls directly into heaven?
You still need to tell us exactly how mortal humans can live without experiencing any pain and suffering. If you were all powerful, how would you accomplish this? Create heaven and put people in heaven.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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candle2 writes:
Ringo, you say that it is now acceptable to murder. You say that we can toss this Commandment away. We can toss out the idea that we need commandments in a book to tell us that murder is immoral.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: You have yet to have your Job moment with the Creator. Where you will get to whine to Him about all of the universal pain and suffering that He could have prevented and how He could have just made earth like Heaven if He was so all-powerful. I doubt you would say anything, however. You don't believe He ever existed. Perhaps you would rather "take your chances" with a universe of chance. We atheists will point out that our universe is indistinguishable from one where there is no God. If there was an all powerful God who claimed to love us then this is not the universe we would expect to see. That's the point.
So perhaps fishing is the best option. A very excellent option, especially once the weather warms up here in the Northern Hemisphere.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Dredge writes: What makes you qualified to know what a godless universe looks like? Having empathy, reason, and logic makes me qualified. A God who claims to be all powerful and also claims to love us wouldn't allow such suffering. I guess there could be a God who enjoys having humans suffer and hides his existence from humans, but that would again be indistinguishable from a universe where God does not exist.
Please explain how a godless universe differs from a universe that includes God. A universe with God would be heaven. We don't live in heaven. There is no evidence that a heaven exists.
The point is, you atheists ignore what the Bible says about Original Sin destroying the world that the first humans (Adam and Eve) experienced. Those are just human stories trying to rationalize why the universe looks like one where there is no loving and all powerful God.
You atheists also ignore the promise God makes in the Bible to provide a Paradise that his children will enjoy forever. Those are promises written by humans. The Bible was written by humans. Humans are not God.
Atheists like you simply don't want God to exist, so why bother inventing fake excuses to reject belief in him? I would love it if God existed, but I'm not going to fool myself into believe God exists just because it would be nice if God did exist. Added in edit: "Is God willing to prevent evil but unable to do so? Then he is not omnipotent.""Is God able to prevent evil but unwilling to do so? Then he is malevolent (or at least less than perfectly good)." "If God is both willing and able to prevent evil then why is there evil in the world?" --Epicurus Edited by Taq, .
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: Of course, anything can be argued to make sense. As a believer, my argument is likely predictable. Humans have the peculiar ability to convince themselves of almost anything. Interviews of people at Trump rallies are a perfect example.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: You would likely argue with Him, though...telling Him He was slacking on the job! Hospitals full of children with cancer would be rather obvious evidence of sleeping on the job.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Phat writes: Thats assuming that you can even define His job. From all appearances, his job is "doesn't exist".
He may have a more intricate job "description" than your mind can fathom. Perhaps He wants *you* to give it all up and help those kids yourself.
Yet again, that is indistinguishable from a deity that doesn't exist.
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