|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0 |
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 5908 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If there is a reason not to commit evil, then it would apply equally to our time on Earth as it does in our time in Heaven. I disagree. I look at it this way. If a Landlord rents out apartments in an apartment house that he happens to own, he cannot legally have a say as to what specific behaviors his tenants can do. IF, however, we are talking about the Landlords's personal home, he darn well can enforce any and every type of behavior within that environment. The earth is more like a rental property. Heaven is more like a personal and private residence.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I guess you're not able to answer my question about freewill in heaven, to be fair it is a difficult one.
Here's an easier version. Is there disease in heaven? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I would think not. Heaven lacks the environment of decay and entropy that earth has. And of course I'm not only speculating but making up what I believe about Heaven. There is no data.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I would think not. So if it is possible for god to create a place where disease does not exist, why hasn't he created a disease free earth?
Heaven lacks the environment of decay and entropy that earth has. And of course I'm not only speculating but making up what I believe about Heaven. There is no data. You don't need to make stuff up, it's a philosophical question, we take it as an accepted premise that heaven does not have disease, famine, natural tragedies etc. If it did it wouldn't be heaven.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Essentially you are asking why God doesn't create Heaven on earth. Trust the process.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
|
Phat writes: Essentially you are asking why God doesn't create Heaven on earth. Trust the process. So can you answer my question?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
The god of the christian books is evil. Q.E.D.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
candle2 Member Posts: 827 Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Taq, a so-called theistic evolutionists is no more a
Christian than a liberal man who puts on a dress and lipstick is a woman. Theistic evolutionists are the same as evolutionists inGod's eyes. God leaves nothing to chance; only humans do this. Jesus tells us that the very hair on our head is known byGod. And, that every sparrow that falls to the ground is also known by God. Revelation 13:8 informs us that before the earth wasformed that the Word (Jesus) knew He would one day be put to death for our sins. Ephesians 1:4 tells us that before the earth wascreated that God already knew who His "elect" were, and when they would be born. The "elect" are those who were/are predestinated toconform to the image of God. The "elect" will occupy governmental position in the Kingdom of God when Christ returns to set it up. Nothing here is left to chance. The Word "yom" is used more than 2300 timesoutside of Genesis 1. Whether plural or singular in every occasion whereyom is used with a number it refers to a 24 hour period. There are over 400 examples of this in the OT. When the terms night and day are found outsideof Genesis 1 (52 times) it always refers to a 24 hour period. When the terms "evening" or "morning" is usedoutside of Genesis 1 it always refers to a 24 hour day. When evening and morning, without yom, are usedtogether outside of Genesis 1 (38 times) it always refers to a 24 hour day. When referring to Jonah being three days andnights in the belly of the fish TE's have no trouble understanding the amount of time involved. In Genesis 1 their minds melt down.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
How? That's like asking me why the sky isn't green
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Meaningless word salad.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
If you are going to try to be clever, make sure the comment is appropriate. Do you honestly not understand the term word salad?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
To be fair, I *did* notice the small g and figured you were only saying that the "god" of the Bible is evil....which is always what critics used to say to conservative leaning Bible thumpers. Tangle seems to think that is true as well...he does not believe a word of the apologetic narrative regarding the stories and parables of the holy scriptures.
You have alluded to the fact about what scares Liberal Progressives and self described educated elitists(of expertise ) and (you) paint conservatives such as Cruz (and evidently myself)as "self radicalized" but do you have any idea (or concern) about what scares me?What scares me is the vision of a one world social democratic order...where religion is publicly outlawed and secular humanist values are required (a mandatory requirement all in the name of protecting the people from religious radicals.) And since you all are so educated, you will push for a one world financial system (advertised as a humane solution to help ALL of the people) and will eventually seek to abolish private property rights (also implemented to back the global government) which is admittedly a long way off at this point. But not that long. I see it happening easily within 25 years. You may laugh (or cry) at my radicalized ignorance but I am just as scared of your leftist authoritarian arrogance. Your system will fail because (all of) you have attempted to replace God with your lame brains and bleeding secular hearts.[/rant] Is it ever possible for a two party system to see eye to eye? Edited by Phat, . The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
candle2 writes: Thats quite a feat...seeing through Gods eyes. Im not 100% sure of what He thinks. For all I know He is either mad at me or crying over my self radicalization! In all seriousness, though...why would God hate "evolutionists"? Theistic evolutionists are the same as evolutionists inGod's eyes. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
|
Phat writes: How? By thinking about it. So the question is if it's possible for god to create a place where suffering is not a necessary part of his creation - which I think you accept? - why has he created suffering? Remember, this is the god of love.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: Apart from the obvious go-to answer that pops up in your head-that He doesnt exist(couldnt exist) I will again go with what Kreeft says. God created the possibility of evil. Thus also the possibility of suffering. Suffering is inevitable to some degree in the realm we live in. So the question is if it's possible for god to create a place where suffering is not a necessary part of his creation - which I think you accept? - why has he created suffering? Remember, this is the god of love. This God also honored our initial freewilled decision(as a species) to exist freely and apart from Him. So why suffer?1) Some suffering is unavoidable. There are diseases, natural disasters, wars and depressions. If I understand you correctly, you are questioning me (as Gods advocate or press secretary) to explain to you why this must be so. Thats the best I can do. And of course, you may argue that we as a species would have to do the same thing even if there were no God and no actualized evil.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024