|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
The very first day Biden was in office he stopped the pipeline from transporting oil, even though trucking it would be two to three times more costly. Uh, sorry, I'm just a retired engineer who has always thought like an engineer, but.. well, things being done have to be done for some purpose, right? I mean, it's not like some hazy hand-waving BS that nobody ever wants to specify in any manner. I'm a retired Chief Petty Officer which means that I live for training and training opportunities. I'm also a retired engineer which means that I live for specifications and results. So then please answer those very basic questions: where does/did that pipeline originate, where does/did it go to, and for what purpose? My understanding is that all that pipeline was for was to transport Canadian oil to US ports for export outside of the US. IOW, none of that Canadian oil had anything to do with the oil market in US economincs. Do you know otherwise?
The cost of food and others necessities increased at or near the same rate. Only in the US? No, of course not! The entire world economy has been hit with inflation and is trying to deal with it. We are doing a lot better than many other countries. Thanks to Biden! Oh, and what would have happened with a Republican administration? Well, the Republican members of Congress all voted against any and all measures to deal with inflation. So under a Republican administration we would be far worse off. For that matter, the closest thing Republicans have to an economic plan is the same one that former Prime Minister Liz Truss tried. The reason why she's a former PM (and with the shortest time in office) is because her economic policy blew up the British economy. Yeah, that failed economic plan is what the Republicans want to use against our economy. Remember:
Taq, I am 69 years old, ... Are you on Social Security and/or Medicare? The Republicans want to get rid of it. GOP leadership in Congress have stated that they want to change how we fund it so that its funding has to be renewed every five years, but Ron Johnson (Senate spokesman for Russian disinformation) wants that to be done every year, thus setting up those programs' demise. McCarthy has presented his plan to reduce benefits in both programs and promises to destroy the US economy in order to get that. How? By refusing to raise the debt limit which would result in the government defaulting on paying its debt which would result in destroying the US' credit rating.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Well then why do you believe that in the beginning was the message? Even before humans could even write or speak! Do you believe that the message predated humans?
I'll ask you one more time: Why would I do what a fictional character tells me to do? And why WOULDN'T you do it if you really believed that character was real? Because I am honest with Jesus. I don't expect Him to smite me for disobedience but I DO expect to feel conviction. Eventually, I will change. And to be fair, I know of very few people... believers or nonbelievers...who would go anywhere near giving everything up. If that makes us all doomed goats so be it. And I'm going to ask Him to make you do it as well. It's not fair for you to skate. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The question was: Why not? Because Jesus had not as of yet a physical body. If Jesus was around at the time, was He a spirit? If so, what distinguished Him from the Holy Spirit or God the Spirit?
Phat writes:
Why did He "need" to be born? Why couldn't He just "wander in one day from the desert"? If He had had a body before He was born, He would not have even needed to be born.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Good question. One would think that the ONLY thing that distinguished Him was the body...
If Jesus was around at the time, was He a spirit? If so, what distinguished Him from the Holy Spirit or God the Spirit? Why did He "need" to be born? Why couldn't He just "wander in one day from the desert"? Another good question. And I refuse to look up any apologetic answers. Let us marinate on this one for a while."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Non sequitur. YOU did not exist until you BECAME your father's son. Even if you are your father's only son, you still did not exist until you were born.
If Jesus was Gods one and only son, He most certainly did exist. Phat writes:
That is exactly what happened, according to the Bible.
Otherwise, your cockamamy explanation requires God to go and find a woman (a human woman at that) to have sex with in order to even have a son! Phat writes:
Irrelevant. We're talking about BECOMING. Nothing exists until it BECOMES what it becomes. If a spirit BECOMES flesh, it's the same as a tree BECOMING a house. The house did not exist until it BECAME a house.
We are talking Spirit. Not material lumber. Phat writes:
Nonsense. You know better than that. A gleam in the eye is not a son.
If you were God, your son could and would exist the moment he became a gleam in his father's eye... Phat writes:
Non sequitur. Besides which, the "ability" to die is irrelevant if He also has the ability to rise from the dead. What's more, your son would do what you yourself could not do. Die.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Eventually, I will change. And to be fair, I know of very few people... believers or nonbelievers...who would go anywhere near giving everything up.
If that makes us all doomed goats so be it. And I'm going to ask Him to make you do it as well. It's not fair for you to skate. Add by edit. This brings up another point. If Jesus wandered in one day from the desert and healed many people, teaching His disciples to do the same, why on earth dint He just *make* everyone believe? Why did He even allow skepticism? Why did He give you the right to label Him fictitious and ignore Him?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I didn't say i believed that. I said the Bible says that.
Well then why do you believe that in the beginning was the message? Phat writes:
Of course. There are lots of other social species. Do you believe that the message predated humans? And you still haven't answered the question: Why would I do what a fictional character tells me to do?
Phat writes:
That's not being honest. Just calling him "Jesus" is not being honest, since you reject everything we know about him. You should call your made-up god something else. How about Barney Rubble?
Because I am honest with Jesus. I don't expect Him to smite me for disobedience but I DO expect to feel conviction. Phat writes:
The disciples, the early church, the widow with two mites, the widow who fed Elisha. And here's a new one for you: When Elisha became Elijah's assistant, he killed his oxen and used the wood from his plow to cook them and he fed them to the people. (1 Kings 19:21) And to be fair, I know of very few people... believers or nonbelievers...who would go anywhere near giving everything up. And since you have no respect for the Bible, in history there were monastic people from various religions. And today there are the Hutterites; they own everything in common - and they are VERY prosperous.
Phat writes:
Of course it is. Why won't you THINK about the question for once? Why would I do what a fictional character tells me to do? It's not fair for you to skate. I don't do what Long John Silver says. I don't do what Bilbo Bagins says. i don't do what Oliver Twist says. Why would I? They are fictional characters. I don't believe they exist. Why would I do what they say? Answer that question.
Phat writes:
From now on, I'm just going to call you an idiot if you bring up that idiotic point. It's not fair for you to skate.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And he didn't have the body until He was born. Case closed.
One would think that the ONLY thing that distinguished Him was the body... Phat writes:
Good. And I refuse to look up any apologetic answers.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Phat writes:
The two phrases in that sentence are unrelated. Try it this way: If Jesus was born in Bethlehem on Christmas Day and healed many people, teaching His disciples to do the same, why on earth dint He just *make* everyone believe? If Jesus wandered in one day from the desert and healed many people, teaching His disciples to do the same, why on earth dint He just *make* everyone believe? So the actual question is: Why on earth dint He just *make* everyone believe? That's my question to you.
Phat writes:
Because skepticism is a good thing. Why did He even allow skepticism?Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If you are so sure that Jesus is fictitious, that must make you infallible.
And for the record, a gleam in God's eye is instant Creation. God either created Jesus (as JW's claim) before anything else (Michael The Arch Angel) or more likely God had the gleam ever since He existed. You cant expect God to follow the natural laws that humans do. When God imagines, He creates. When humans imagine, they merely dream and fantasize. In order to actually build a house out of a tree, one must plan, saw, pound nails, and know how to measure and level up the planks. God could simply bypass the tree. In fact, He built the church on the Rock of revelation given to Peter."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Ringo, was this a hallucination by Paul, or did he lie?
1Corinthians 10:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should beignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea. And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and inthe sea. And did all eat the same spiritual meat. And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drankof that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." The God that led the Israelites out of Egypt was Christ. Jesus was the member of the God kind (family) that wasIn the cloud. Jesus was the member of the God kind that wrote thethe 10 Commandments on stone-in order to show their permanence. The Apostle Thomas understood this perfectly, which iswhy he called Jesus "My Lord and my God." John 20:28.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nope. I didn't say I was "so sure". It's just a logical conclusion, based on lack of evidence. If you are so sure that Jesus is fictitious, that must make you infallible It's the same as your own lack of belief in unicorns. Are you "so sure" that they don't exist? Does your lack of belief make you infallible? Your inability to read my posts does make you illiterate though.
Phat writes:
You're just parroting dogma again. Say something sensible.
And for the record, a gleam in God's eye is instant Creation. Phat writes:
There you go. Now you're on solid ground, following the JWs.
God either created Jesus (as JW's claim) before anything else... Phat writes:
That kinda destroys the whole idea of the trinity, doesn't it? Why would God need a gleam in the eye if Jesus already existed?
... or more likely God had the gleam ever since He existed. Phat writes:
Sure I can. Watch me. You cant expect God to follow the natural laws that humans do. (Why would God violate His own laws?)
Phat writes:
Dogma. Want a cracker? When God imagines, He creates.Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
The Exodus is fiction.
Ringo, was this a hallucination by Paul, or did he lie? 1Corinthians 10:1-4 candle2 writes:
Nope. Christ wasn't born until centuries later. And the Exodus is fiction.
The God that led the Israelites out of Egypt was Christ. candle2 writes:
What Thomas believed is irrelevant. The Romans believed that Jupiter and Mars were gods. The Apostle Thomas understood this perfectly, which iswhy he called Jesus "My Lord and my God." John 20:28. Come all of you cowboys all over this land, I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command: To hold a six shooter, and never to run As long as there's bullets in both of your guns. -- Woody Guthrie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
Ringo, read Luke 24:25-27
"Then He said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart tobelieve all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and toenter into His glory? And beginning at Moses and all he prophets, heexpounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself." In other words, Jesus stated plainly that He pointedout to all the OT prophets all the OT scriptures that pertained to Him. In order for Him to have been able to do that He wouldhave, by necessity, had pre-existence before His human birth by Mary. What was Luke's issue? Was he lying?Was he deceived? Was he doing mushrooms, which caused him to hallucinate? The only way you can maintain that Christ was not theCreator of all that exists is to deny, deny, deny. And, that is not a good premise in which to reach areasonable conclusion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
candle2 writes: The Dixiecrats were Democrats. Besides StromThurmond one other Dixiecrat might have done so. However, Strom did not switch until the mid 60s. By that time he did not have the same rhetoric The racist Southern Democrats defected over to the Republican party. That's a fact. That's where they remain. You also seem to ignore modern history. Which party is fighting for minority rights? Democrats or Republicans? At which rallies to you see the battle flag of the Confederacy? Is it at Democratic rallies, or Republican ones? Who is fighting against Affirmative Action and Voting rights that were part of the Civil Rights Act? It isn't Democrats.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024