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Author
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Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1682 of 1864 (909902)
04-12-2023 5:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 1681 by Dredge
04-12-2023 5:26 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: So how do you suggest I should "love" queers? That's the bit you'll find very hard, being a prejudiced, hate-filled guy seemingly more interested in trying to find loopholes in Christ's teachings and reasons why you can hate than actually following them. I suggest you start by trying to understand Christ's real message of do as you would be done by and peace and love and see where it takes you. It shouldn't need an atheist to tell you this, it's all in your book.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1681 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 5:26 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1683 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 5:46 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1684 of 1864 (909904)
04-12-2023 6:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 1683 by Dredge
04-12-2023 5:46 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: So you're saying a Christian should "love" queers, No, I'm telling you what your Saviour, Jesus Christ commands you to do by showing you his words in your book. How you respond to his commandments is your problem to solve - it's your soul and your eternity. But I do suggest that your behaviour here to date, doesn't seem to coincide with the behaviour he expects from you.
Fascinating.
Isn't it.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1683 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 5:46 PM | | Dredge has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1687 of 1864 (909910)
04-13-2023 2:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 1686 by Dredge
04-12-2023 8:46 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: I noticed you ignored my question in Message 1673. How do you reconcile Jesus' commandment to "love one another " with his commandment to expel unrepentant sinners from the Church? Well lawyer, I think that's a problem for you to resolve. But if you're asking for my advice I would say that instead of picking out an individual line in Matt 18, I suggest you read the whole of Chapter 18 and try to find what Jesus is actually trying to tell you, by instruction and by parable. The chapter is about who can enter the kingdom of heaven - those who are humble and become like little children - and it ends with the threat of hell for those who do not forgive.
quote:
So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Throughout the whole of Jesus' teaching, you are commanded to love and to forgive. It's his entire message, are you going to ignore that message lawyer?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1686 by Dredge, posted 04-12-2023 8:46 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1688 by Dredge, posted 04-13-2023 9:19 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1690 of 1864 (909922)
04-13-2023 10:09 AM
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Reply to: Message 1688 by Dredge
04-13-2023 9:19 AM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: All you're doing is cherry-picking the verses that suit your argument and ignoring the verses that don't. That's a difficult argument to make given that I suggested that you read the whole of Matthew Chapter 18 in order to get the full message, whilst you cherry-picked a single line. Are you doubting that Jesus' core message (and commandment) is to love your neighbour and to forgive their trespasses (you know, that Lord's prayer you chant all the time - "... forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us..." You'll also find it in Matthew 6:12-14 btw) Your argument fails bcoz it's unbalanced, wilfuly dishonest and lacks integrity. Like I say, it's your soul not mine, if you think Jesus' core message gives you free rein to hate your fellow man, I suggest you take it up with Him. Real Christians do not believe that and neither do any of the atheists I know either. Edited by Tangle, .
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1688 by Dredge, posted 04-13-2023 9:19 AM | | Dredge has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1694 of 1864 (910003)
04-14-2023 3:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 1691 by Dredge
04-14-2023 1:47 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: The point is, it's been documented that 93% of the clerical sexual-abuse offences against children in the Catholic Church have been perpetrated by men against boys ... a good enough reason for me to be prejudiced against the queer sub-species. I think you need to search your soul on this. You earlier gave the oft quoted alibi of loving the sinner but hating the sin. This is never true as you've just proven, you accept that you are prejudice against 'the queer'. This is a general prejudice against all 'queers' regardless of who they are. In fact just like us 'straights' the overwhelming majority of 'queers' are just as revolted by the actions of these priest abusers as you and I are.
Thankfully, the Church hierarchy has also developed a prejudice against queers - my understanding is that homosexuals are now barred from becoming priests and religious ("holy orders"). This is truly horrible; institutionalised homophobia. And from an organisation that has been shown to be corrupt to its core - moving the abusers around so as not to damage their image. God created homosexuals too you know.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1691 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 1:47 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1695 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 6:10 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1696 of 1864 (910019)
04-14-2023 6:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 1695 by Dredge
04-14-2023 6:10 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: Your repugnant defence of gross immorality (homosexuality = bestiality) is unfortunately reflected in the wider world ... one symptom of a very corrupt, very sick civilization ... that is destined for destruction.. Like I say, you're not a Christian; Christ commands you to love and forgive, you just hate. You must fear for your soul lawyer. Why did your god create homosexuals?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1695 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 6:10 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1697 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 7:51 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1698 of 1864 (910024)
04-15-2023 2:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 1697 by Dredge
04-14-2023 7:51 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: What you need to do is eschew depravity and develop some homophobic pride, like me. As you've now abandoned any pretence of loving the sinner but hating the sin, how are you going explain to your maker that you disobeyed his commandments to love and forgive by holding hatred of others deep in your heart? Are you hoping to rely on quoting sub-section 18, paragraph 17 of the relevant Act, lawyer? I don't think that would cut much ice with the Almighty who actually knows your thoughts and feelings. I don't believe that you actually believe in Christ's message, I think that like most fundamentalists you're only interested in yourself.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1697 by Dredge, posted 04-14-2023 7:51 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1700 by Dredge, posted 04-15-2023 12:29 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1701 of 1864 (910037)
04-15-2023 12:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 1700 by Dredge
04-15-2023 12:29 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
You've gotta laugh...
quote:
... one of Jesus's miracles is the healing the Centurion's boy. It's in Matthew and Luke. Matthew uses the word "pais"—you get the word pederasty from it, it means youth—to describe this boy, who is essentially a concubine to the Centurian. It's an erotic relationship. He comes to Jesus and asks for his boy to be healed. And Jesus asks if he should heal him, and he says, "I'm not worthy that you should come under my roof, but say the word and my boy will be healed." Jesus says about the faith of the Centurion, who is in a homoerotic relationship, that "there is no greater faith than I've encountered in Israel." What's great about that is that every time you go to communion on Sunday, millions of Catholics say, "Lord, I'm not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." They're uttering this homoerotic phrase that was uttered by a Centurion in an actual homosexual relationship with a youth. We've just sanitized that and forgotten those sort of things in the meantime. But a church of the second century would understand that this is a homosexual relationship and it wasn't a big deal.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1700 by Dredge, posted 04-15-2023 12:29 PM | | Dredge has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1705 of 1864 (910063)
04-15-2023 5:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 1702 by Phat
04-15-2023 3:53 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Phat writes: Hardly a reliable source. I thought it was funny. But is it false? It's a story in your bible. Want to prove it wrong?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1702 by Phat, posted 04-15-2023 3:53 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1706 of 1864 (910064)
04-15-2023 5:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 1703 by Dredge
04-15-2023 4:29 PM
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Not me lawyer, blame your Catholic compatriots
Homosexual interpretationDaniel A. Helminiak, an American Catholic priest, theologian and author of "What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality", states that the word pais, used for the servant, could have a sexual meaning.[11] Theodore W. Jennings Jr. and Tat-Siong Benny Liew, also authors of various Christian books, further write that Roman historical data about patron-client relationships and about same-sex relations among soldiers support the view that the pais in Matthew's account is the centurion's "boy-lover", and that the centurion, therefore, did not want Jesus to enter his house for fear perhaps that the boy would be enamoured of Jesus instead. The Roman military historian D.B. Saddington writes that while he does not exclude the possibility, the evidence the two put forward supports "neither of these interpretations".[12] Healing the centurion's servant - Wikipedia
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1703 by Dredge, posted 04-15-2023 4:29 PM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1715 by Dredge, posted 04-16-2023 3:27 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1717 of 1864 (910107)
04-16-2023 3:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 1715 by Dredge
04-16-2023 3:27 PM
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Touched a nerve did I, lawyer?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1715 by Dredge, posted 04-16-2023 3:27 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1724 of 1864 (910134)
04-17-2023 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 1723 by Dredge
04-17-2023 2:03 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: Your knowledge of history appears to be a tad limited. Communist (ie, atheist) regimes killed at least 100 million people in less than a century. Lest you forget, atheism is only a disbelief in god(s). Nobody goes to war because of a disbelief in god(s). There are no holy atheist wars. Dictatorship under the guise of communism is the dogma that those vicious regimes killed for.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1723 by Dredge, posted 04-17-2023 2:03 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1726 of 1864 (910149)
04-18-2023 3:15 AM
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Reply to: Message 1723 by Dredge
04-17-2023 2:03 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Putin the mass-murdering Christian Communist
Putin and the Orthodox Church: how his faith shapes his politics - Theos Think Tank - Understanding faith. Enriching society.Great picture that I can't make show on the forum.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1723 by Dredge, posted 04-17-2023 2:03 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1729 of 1864 (910154)
04-18-2023 8:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 1727 by AZPaul3
04-18-2023 6:27 AM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
The Christian God is on his side for sure.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1727 by AZPaul3, posted 04-18-2023 6:27 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9515 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 1732 of 1864 (910169)
04-18-2023 2:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 1731 by Dredge
04-18-2023 2:37 PM
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Re: Burning The Candle At Both Ends
Dredge writes: Atheists like you are too stupid to see that you're contradicting your own belief system.
It's a non-belief system. Atheists don't believe in god(s). That's it. That's everything. It's not much to remember but for some reason you just can't make it stick.
If there is no after-life and life is the result of mindless evolution, life has no meaning ... so why are you carrying on as if life does have meaning? Given that atheists don't suicide the moment they become atheists, perhaps there's something wrong with your premise? Could it be that a superstitious belief in a 2,000 year old mythology is not required in order to find meaning in life? You need to think that through lawyer. If you can. Best do it before you have to explain yourself would be my advice.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1731 by Dredge, posted 04-18-2023 2:37 PM | | Dredge has replied |
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