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Author Topic:   What's the problem with teaching ID?
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 337 (402792)
05-30-2007 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by pwnagepanda
05-29-2007 11:57 PM


Re: I have no problem with teaching ID in a school but...
The best reason that Intelligent design sould not be taught is that A. it has been proven false and B. it is unfalsifiable, and therefore not science.
Beg pardon?
Want to try that one again?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 337 (424244)
09-26-2007 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by DivineBeginning
09-26-2007 9:06 AM


Re: I have no problem with teaching ID in a school but...
ID is also a dead end.
ID is terrible theology and it would also mean that science is useless and worthless.
If there is some cosmic tinkerer who steps in a creates on whim, we can never know is any science is valid or repeatable.
The ID folk point to a very few examples and declare they are designed. When others point to examples of really piss poor design found, and to the generally mediocre at best design that is the norm, the response is "We cannot tell the intent of the Designer."
Well, regardless of the intent of the Designer, we can judge the products based our own understanding. Just as when we buy a washer or dryer, we can examine the products and decide which is well designed, which was designed to achieve a price point and which is just junk.
A second issue is if we cannot know the intent of the designer, we cannot make predictions on the basis of past history. We have no assurance that the Designer will not step in and decide that plane number two will not fly.
I think ID should be taught, taught as an example of silliness.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-26-2007 9:06 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 12:41 PM jar has not replied
 Message 83 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 8:17 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 337 (424323)
09-26-2007 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by pbee
09-26-2007 2:51 PM


looking for some support to your assertions
While I have no problems with theories, I do take issue with the thought of educating children with theories presented as fact.
And exactly what theories are taught as fact?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 2:51 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 3:00 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 60 of 337 (424326)
09-26-2007 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by pbee
09-26-2007 3:00 PM


Re: looking for some support to your assertions
Please read what you post.
Big bang theory(as an example).
Note the word "Theory?"
Now, do you have an example of theory being taught as fact?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 3:00 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 67 of 337 (424341)
09-26-2007 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by pbee
09-26-2007 4:00 PM


Re: looking for some support to your assertions
Your assertion was that theories are being taught as fact.
I still await and example of a Theory that is taught as fact.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 4:00 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 4:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 337 (424343)
09-26-2007 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by pbee
09-26-2007 4:07 PM


Still looking for some support to your assertions
So you still cannot present a single example of a Theory that is taught as a Fact yet continue to assert that is happening?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 4:07 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 75 of 337 (424350)
09-26-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by pbee
09-26-2007 4:22 PM


why teach the BB theory?
Why draft assignments based on the big bang theory and reject ID based ones?
Because there is evidence that supports a Big Bang while there is no evidence that supports ID. Before ID can be considered a Theory, there must be a model. So far no one has presented a model for ID.
There is no ID theory.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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 Message 73 by pbee, posted 09-26-2007 4:22 PM pbee has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 89 of 337 (424486)
09-27-2007 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 8:17 AM


Re: I have no problem with teaching ID in a school but...
I'm sorry but that is just a pretty silly answer. It does show though that ID is NOT science but rather simply religion in disguise.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 8:17 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:12 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 91 of 337 (424488)
09-27-2007 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:08 AM


The Bible?
There is ONE version of Christianity. It's contained in the Bible.
Are you as ignorant of Christianity as you are of science?
The is no such thing as "The Bible". There are several different Canons with several different lists of what books are in, what ore not. The smallest Canon has only 5 books while the largest Canon has over 80.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:08 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:20 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 92 of 337 (424490)
09-27-2007 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:12 AM


Re: I have no problem with teaching ID in a school but...
No, my friend, that is where you are wrong. Christianity is NOT a religion is a personal relationship with our Creator, and his Son Jesus Christ. But, as long as you are on the "religion in disguise" thing. I know you would have to agree that Atheism is a religion in itself, right? And so is Budhism, Hinduism, etc. These are all taught in schools. Why do you suppose that is?
LOL, too funny.
First you say there is such a thing as "THE Bible", now you say Christianity is not a religion.
Then you think I would agree that atheism is a religion?
Get serious.
Atheism is NOT taught in school that I know of. Buddhism, Hinduism may be taught in either social studies or religious studies, and I would have no problem teach Christianity there either.
But non of that has anything to do with ID or teaching ID.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:12 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 96 of 337 (424496)
09-27-2007 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:20 AM


Re: The Bible?
If there was some other writing that God wanted to be in the Bible, it would have been. He doesn't make mistakes.
Then why do some Canon (you do know that the only thing that makes something a Bible is Canon don't you? ) contain only the first 5 books of the Bible and other Canon contain over 80 books? Couldn't God make up her mind?
The rest of your Yada yada is irrelevant and unimportant.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:20 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:34 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 98 of 337 (424499)
09-27-2007 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:34 AM


Re: The Bible?
But you still fail to address the fact that there is no such thing as "The Bible" and instead retreat into some carny spiel. What makes you think I have not attended many such churches of many different flavors of the Christian religion?
What bothers me about such places was that the Pastors and Ministers all were so totally ignorant of the faith they were selling.
But worry not, I doubt that you can teach me anything about GOD.
And the topic is still "What's the problem with teaching ID?"
I have said that it should be taught as an example of piss poor science, perversion of the scientific method and terrible theology.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:34 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:47 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 102 of 337 (424507)
09-27-2007 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:47 AM


Re: The Bible?
By the way, there is a thing called the Holy Bible.
There is the Bible(s) accepted under the Western Canon.
But they are not the only Christian Bibles. As I have already explained to you, what makes something a Bible is if it contains those books accepted by a given Canon.
That is the only thing that makes something a Bible. Does it contain those books selected under a given Canon?
But there is not one Canon, but many, the smallest containing only 5 books, the largest containing over 80.
The rest of you spiel is irrelevant and unimportant.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:47 AM DivineBeginning has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:57 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 104 of 337 (424511)
09-27-2007 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:57 AM


Re: The Bible?
I'm sorry but other than your assertion, do you have anything to support that?
You will need some pretty strong support since the evidence clearly shows what you are claiming to be false.
But the issue is "What's the problem with teaching ID?"
I have stated that I think ID should be taught, if for no other reason to show the implications of such a failed, deadend, worthless method.
As I have pointed out before, when we actually look at the world around us, what we see are examples of just barely good enough to squeak by design, Inept Design, Ignorant Design, Inefficient Design, everything BUT Intelligent Design.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:57 AM DivineBeginning has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 136 of 337 (431117)
10-29-2007 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Beretta
10-29-2007 12:22 PM


Re: New member is confused
Creationists are not just welcomed, they are sought after. The hope is that one day a Creationist of Type 2b will actually be found who can present a Creationist Model that explains what is seen as well as the current models. Unfortunately, no such Creationist has ever been found.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Beretta, posted 10-29-2007 12:22 PM Beretta has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Beretta, posted 10-30-2007 3:01 AM jar has replied

  
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