The TRUE reason for the EvC controversy, and why it can not be resolved.

Ok...It seems to me that you would basically take it for granted that "The Fall" occurred, based on your interpretation of Christian Scripture. I have no problem with that. However, it has to be noted that it is a belief that has its basis in faith, and faith alone. But, i get the feeling that you realise and accept that.
From my view, i give it to you, in that i regard such a scenario as a possibility. Of course, i also regard the possibility that i and all around me was created a second ago, complete with memories and a "false" history, with equal merit. Don't get me wrong, i'm not poo-pooing your belief; i'm just saying that either is a possibility.
The possibilities are endless and even science acknowledges its inability to test for many of them.There are, however, implications to all these possibilities, including that of "The Fall". From what i've read in the thread so far, i take it that you accept that current knowledge (based, as you put it, on a "fallen" reality) points to evolution being factual. It also points to the universe being billions of years old. For these reasons you will not dispute either. Yet, if this is the case, and it is the fall that resulted in a reality that corresponds to Old Earth and Evolution, then would that not mean that the christian God had caused it to happen, since He brought about the fall (not saying He was responsible for it, just that He made it happen)?The major implication of this is that the christian God has been extremely deceitful. Since it is He that brought about the fall, which resulted in us seeing the world as it seems. What sort of absolutely moral God would do that (based, of course, on our subjective morality)?
If that is the case then Christianity as a religion would be pointless; how can one worship a God that would not follow the ideals that are expected of His worshippers?

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

It doesnt have anything to do with differing versions of theology.Adam and Eve may have sinned, but God had a choice in what He did.
You take away that choice, and you take away God's omnipotence.You can't have it both ways. Either God brought on the Fall, as He chose to do so; or God was bound by the sins of Adam and Eve, thus negating ommnipotence.

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

Come one, Faith. I don't see where evil really comes into it. Could God not have just chosen to forgive? Was it "evil" to forgive Adam and Eve their transgressions? The choice was there. If the Fall occurred then God didn't take it.Whatever happened, a validification of the Fall doesn't portray God in a good light, whichever way you look at it.By the way (and this is off-topic i think), Your saying that God cannot do evil, simply restricts God more and more. but we need not get into that here.

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

Thank you for your insightful and thought-provoking reply.

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

It matters not, whether or not the deception was active or passive; if the Fall occurred, then we have been deceived...
Is God not all-powerful, that He could not make it so that truth was preserved?You've basically admitted that you have no solid proof to support your belief in the Fall. You just take it for granted that it happened. Your belief, i have no qualms with you believing it...
however, i must pose the question: why do you believe that the Fall occurred, over the myriad other possibilities, some of which have supporting, corroborated evidence?By the way, nice to see a fellow South African on here

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

No, you didn't. You've simply dug a deeper hole, by adding the implication that God is also short-sighted. First you limit His omnipotence, then you limit His Omniscience. I'm not Christian so these questions, I don't feel the compulsion to answer; in fact I could easily answer them, however, some answers you might not like. You are Christian; however, its seems that by asking these questions and answering them with the Fall, you're basically searching for a way to reconcile what you observe about the world with your beliefs. Hmmm...I haven't met any satanists, let alone ex-satanists, so it doesn't mean much too me. Satanism is inherently linked to Christianity, however, in that Satanists worship the Satan of the Bible. To convert to a religion they already have some "closeness" with would seem to me the more pragmatic choice.

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine