The TRUE reason for the EvC controversy, and why it can not be resolved.

Miracles, the second coming, heaven and hell are completely beside the point. A few professing "Christians" have missed the point of Christianity and focussed on those side issues.The "TRUE" reason for the controversy is the failure of a few to understand what Christianity truly is.

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At the risk of diverting the topic:Christainity truly is (like every other religion) a means for human beings to get along with each other. Hence, "Love thy neighbour as thyself".The "supernatural" aspects are just smoke and mirrors.

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My point is that the controversy is not about "worldviews" or "philosophy".It's about the failure of a few professing Christians to think critically. They fail to think critically about science and they also fail to think critically about religion.Is the "no true Christian" fallacy your only argument?

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I never answer that question. It isn't your place to judge me. By that kind of logic: if you're not an evolutionist, why should anybody debate evolution with you? Like anything else, you need outside corroboration to determine "truth". If we can see in the geologic record that a worldwide flood never happened, then we need to re-evaluate our interpretation of Genesis. Maybe it isn't mere history after all. Maybe it's more important than that. I never said you shouldn't be critical of Jesus' resurrection. You should. The first question you should ask yourself is "What does it mean? - not "Did it happen?" The Christian religion doesn't rise or fall on whether or not Jesus was a historical personage. It rests on the message He brought. It isn't all about making it "easy" for you. If you want "the TRUE reason" to be easy, you're liable to be disappointed. Exactly. But faith doesn't require you to turn a blind eye to what you can see.We can see a lot of how the world works and what we see tells us that the "fundy" interpretation of the Bible is false. But, instead of rejecting science, that should motivate us to study the Bible more closely.You'll get a lot more out of it if you don't start with an anti-science attitude. No. I think that makes you a lazy thinker.By not thinking critically, you not only miss the beauty of the Creation - including the beauty of evolution - but you also miss most of the point of the Bible.

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We can discover common ground as we go along, like we would in any other debate. How do you think it comes across if you say this person is not a Christian and that person is not a Christian? If that isn't judgmental, what is? Read the title of the site. Debating evolution is what we do here. I'm not hoping to have any impact on you. I'm hoping to show others the flaws in your thinking. I didn't say I reject anything. I said you should question everything. (Another example of you jumping to a conclusion about who is a Christian. Slow down and think.) You have to believe certain things to belong to the club called "Christians" - but you don't know what I believe. And "what religion is" is following the message, not just going to the club meetings. "The Fall" has no basis in either science or theology. (It is NOT necessary to believe in "the Fall" to be a Christian.) You're just making up a hypothetical barrier which science can't cross. Who's "rejecting" Genesis? I have more respect for Genesis than you do because I don't try to jam it into a narrow pre-conceived interpretation. Which is more important in the long run? Crime and Punishment or last week's New York Times?There is much more to Genesis than mere history. Please try to understand what it says. No it doesn't - it comes down to: do you believe the Creation was created by God? If you do, you ought to have enough respect for Him and His creation to look at it. Then you completely misunderstand my position. I am not trying to falsify any religion.I am trying to clarify it. You can not have a clear understanding of your own religion if you try to separate the Creation from the God who created it.

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Bingo. The message is universal. It has always been here.

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I think what Faith and GFC are trying to say is that we are "fallen" - i.e. "tainted", "damaged goods", etc. - and therefore our entire thinking about science is "warped". It's tantamount to saying that we can never know anything.Ironically, as I've been trying to tell GFC, that "worldview" is what prevents them from understanding science.

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If you use the little green Reply button in the lower right-hand corner, we'll know which one of us doesn't "get it".

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Somebody has to do it. The loudest self-styled "Christians" here don't know the first thing about theology (which is the TRUE reason for the EvC controversy).

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Neither can He fail - which is why a "fall" is impossible. No doubt the universe is unfolding as it should - and exactly as planned from the beginning.

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But that would be a failure on God's part. We are exactly as He intended us to be - not "fallen".God is not at odds with His creation. The creationists' failure to understand that fact is the TRUE reason for the EvC controversy.

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We are responsible for what we do. We are not responsible for the fact that we are not perfect. If God gave us free will (the knowledge of good and evil), the imperfection is built into us.You're the one who's saying that God is so puny that He couldn't control His creation.

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My beliefs are on record in what I say, if not in what I profess to believe. Your pronouncement of who is a Christian and who is not is extremely condescending and, yes, judgmental.But nothing you said to me in your last post has anything to do with the topic.What I have said, from the beginning of the thread, is that the TRUE reason for the EvC controversy is this: creationists look at science in a distorted way because they look at everything in a distorted way - including their own religion. That is pretty clear from your own posts.(If you want to discuss the real message of Christianity in an appropriate thread, I'll be glad to do so.)

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Deleted: talking to myself. See below.This message has been edited by Ringo, 2006-03-27 11:26 AM

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Gone full circle,In case you're interested in responding to the substance of my last post, Message 159, here it is again:

quote:

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What I have said, from the beginning of the thread, is that the TRUE reason for the EvC controversy is this: creationists look at science in a distorted way because they look at everything in a distorted way - including their own religion. That is pretty clear from your own posts.

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