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Author | Topic: Jesus The false prophet | |||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Can you elaborate what constitutes a Messiah? This term/premise was introduced in the Hebrew bible which lists a host of traits, deeds and actions which must occur, especially that it will result in the resurrection of the rightious dead - as opposed the Messiah, and that world peace will be seen - not in the future, but by and within such a Messiah's reign. Also, was Moses a Messiah of his time, and why so if yes or no?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Instead, a holocaust occured, in what remains the greatest defense of faith by a people in all recorded history - not even mentioned in the Gospels. There are a host of factors which a Messiah was ordained to fulfill - but which never included his own sacrifice.
quote: Is it a great crime to pray for help when faced with anihilation by a brutal invader and a depraved Roman emperor who anointed himself as divine - how would you have responded had you been a monotheist?
quote: The Hebrew bible affords him this title; Moses fulfilled the role of saving his people, and was also accorded as the Law Giver, which the world turns by today. Can you name a single law the world follows from the Gospels? Can you see Christianity existing or would there even be a Jesus had Moses not saved his people?
quote: Only to those who follow, and the rest are doomed to a very hot place for a very long time - no matter what their deeds and actions may be? Is a bad Christian superior to a good non-christian?
quote: I will be very impressed if you show such a proof - proven as existing 'BEFORE' - the temple fell, as we see in the prophesy of the dead sea scrolls. Else we can safely say it is a retrospective writing by Romans made centuries after the fact?
quote: This is in contradiction of what was said by God himself - which negates the attribute of God is Truth. What I see is that the facts say Moses was and remains the greatest human who ever lived - by period of time, impact and by cencus today. Do the math: 14M Jews, 1.5B Muslims and 2B Christians revere Moses. Does belief transcend reality?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I may be giving you a hard time, but I am trying to figure out the coherence factor of what is the most powerful religious group. Your post has two BIG TIME errors. That prophesy was made in the Hebrew bible: the factor of precedence must prevail and be credited, else it is a lie by omission. You have to show this as being a contemporary declaration, which has not been made manifest, despite emerging in a time when writing was commonplace. Otherwise I too can prophesize the sun rose this morning.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: A most perverse and obscene premise. Violent revolution? Judea was attacked and made to pay tribute and taxes - which she did for 150 years. Then depraved Nero introduced the heresy decree to worship his image in the temple - which the Jews rejected. Yet you call this violent revolution. Wow! Yet I see that the Jews have an obligation to assist Christians, who took on the Hebrew bible as their bedrock, but were unable to drop the dead donket of hellinism. Jews also failed in this regard with the Golden Calf story - they had help so their entire dna was altered, else they would not be around today. Those 40 years in the desert was a critical period.
quote:This is Roman guile. Sacrifices in the temple did not negate wanton sins; this only applied to inadvertant sins via accidents. The temple fell with the Jews were tested of their belief with a war with Rome in the defense of belief - nothing to do with Jesus. Fact is, if the Jews never rejected Rome, all Christans would be worshipping Jupiter and Mars today. Do you even know why this greatest of all defenses of belief is not recorded in the Gospels - when it occured in their faces? The prophesy of the temple falling was made by King Solomon, not anyone else, thus was the arc hidden by him. quote: You did not mention it. A million gave their lives and nation, throwing themselves on Roman swords - this has never been equalled in history. This was a greater holocaust than with the Nazis - while the Jews had no choice to save themselves during W.W.II, the Jews of Judea had - but they rejected it without their right to belief. Ths marks humanity's greatest sacrifice.
quote: So you would have stood with the Jews against Rome - not what the Gospel adherants advised as a crime by the Jews? This was the choice facing Jews - the notion of rebeliousness is perverse here.
quote: There are no laws in the Gospels: name one? Christianity could not exist without Moses nor without the Jews challenging Rome.
quote: Both the Gospels and Quran have racist doctrines hinged on names instead of laws. One says no salvation but through me; the other says all who don't follow Mohammed are non-believers and a blessing to kill. In contrast, the Hebrew bible says this: "ONLY THE SOUL THAT SINS [COMMITS A CRIME] IT SHALL PAY - THE SON SHALL NOT PAY FOR THE FATHER NOR THE MOTHER FOR THE DAUGHTER" Which prevails today - check with your local sherriff?
quote: Thy Will refers to Godly laws which tumbled down from Sinai, the greatest event in the universe. Of note is how Moses' name is not attached to a single law - they stand pristine by themselves, accepted as the law by all worldly institutions.
quote: I contend that none can overturn what was said by God - not even God, based on the premise God is truth. This is proven when Christian never accept Islam - they demanded Jesus. Europe should have told the apostles the same - get me Moses to verify what you say! It resulted in God being made a cursory after thought - if even that. There is nothing merciful about calling those who observed God's laws for 2000 years before Christianity emerged, as born of the devil. A mysterious force brought this same example back to Europe: Islam told you what you told the Jews.
quote: Only with Moses did we hear of a direct revelation with millions present as witness and a hard copy bible emerging; this changed the universe while earning the wrach of every man made divine king. Consider the ultimate metaphoric question applying today: What if all three emerged with different messages, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed. Place your bets! Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Do you mean there is another group on the planet who proved their belief more so than the disbelieving Jews, for a longer period and against more existential wars against the mightiest powers in history? Are Jews unbelievers because Christianity says so or because Islam does - it seems that the Jews would be wrong whichever side they looked - and worse if they just remained as Jews. I wonder what would happen if Christians and Muslims were locked up in a room and not allowed out till they resolve their absolute contradictory messages - which are in contradiction of their core doctrines, of history, geography, dates and places - even of the same space-time they are discussing. It seems reasonable this should be demanded of these two systems, otherwise all their claims must go south. Among the first items on the board would be that each prove that a figure called Jesus even existed - they shouldn have no problem here - this was a period when such proof would be simple; writings was commonplace. Each must prove that Jesus existed, but never crucified as well as that he lived a long life in Egypt [says Muslims]; each will have to prove why the immaculate birth is accepted by both but not any resurrection. Each will have to explain why there is no proof of a Roman trial or of a singe apostle, and that the claim the Gospels was written by so many apostles, first in Hebrew then in Greek - with a total vacuum of such proof. Where are your dead sea scrolls - you have never been holocausted and dispersed throughout the nations and held in ghettoes - what's your excuse? Why is there proof of 3,200 year David but not of JC or a single figure in the Gospels? Hardest, how would a Jesus respond, if he even existed, at a Roman trial: remember a heresy decree applied here. How would Jesus react to the charge of not worshipping Jupiter and the Roman emperor - was he a rebelious person in this regard - or only the Jews were rebelous? And how would the Romans react to Jesus in such a trial - would they freely release him and blame the Jews instead? Of course not - so lets invent some beedy eyed, sniggering Jews dancing of another Jews' death - ala Mad [2000 lashes per frame] Mel's passion. Yes that should fix it - the Jews have a history of such acts, right? Maybe a judge would decide both are wrong and the Jews right. Maybe no proof of anything does not conclude in it being true by belief but false by facts of reality. Maybe that is why Christians and Muslims are never seen confronting their own contradictions but attacking Jews instead. Maybe two religions should be very scared if a true and real Messiah does come? The bottom line says, if either one of Christianity or Islam is right - there will be disatser as a result; not so if Judaism is right.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Of course you would say this, but the equalist seeking demand has no substance and admits to only a lost case scenario. One stands out as an anomaly here: The Hebrew bible does not mention the other two, predates them by 2000 and 2500 years and is not a relacement theology attacking other belief systems with a usurping agenda. It is reasonable that if two systems attack another, they at least should first resolve their own contradictions in their claims. Consider how this would unfold when reduced to a legal action in a stolen car case: the judge would order both of you to get your acts together.
quote: Not so with a closer zoom in. Christianity and Islam have used the chosen factor in the Hebrew bible as a justification of their wrath and deeds against the Jews thoughout their history, justifying robbery as mandated by a lord/allah who winks and nods at them for such crimes. They are aghast this nation has returned - it is an affront to all their beliefs and doctrines. But the Hebrew bible mandates being a light unto others 'by example only' [a light], not by claims all others are unbelievers and a blessing to kill, not via the rake and the sword - two of the most evil forms of chosen there is. The world is facing disaster tomorrow only via two covert forms of chosen which contradict the Hebrew and thereby seeks to negate equal justice for all and inalienable human rights. It's the difference between a system based on magestic laws and two hell bent on NAMES and lawlessness as their only claim to fame. Lets face it - a leap is required here and this is now almost impossible to do - it is akin to jumping off an abyss to resolve what Christianity and Islam have introduced - they are their own worst enemies, but attacking someone else for it.
quote: The truth appears when we step back from ourselves and watch the big picture. Those who commited great crimes are not anymore in the loop: Mighty Rome, history's greatest super ower, is dead and a pint sized Israel lives. Rocket science what that says. There are 1000's of bricks in the wall and Israel is returned - while Europe and Islam are in their final days of chaos driven from within themselves - not even a Zionist plot applies anymore. Christianity and Islam must cease being SUBJECT TO JEWS belief systems as the condition of their belief in God, and accept that Israel's destiny is not in their hands, nor the EU, UN, USA or any other entity but the one who established her. Nor is Israel existing an evil thing. Your own Pope canonised this factor for you that Israel has its own indeoendent mandate unrelated to Christianity and Islam. Instead of clinging to Jerusalem and Hebron, changing historical names of Samaria to WEST BANK and Arab Muslims to Palestinians, why not go and establish sacred places all over the world also? If someone comes to you and speaks in the name of Moses or God, altering their original message with two contradicting reports - you must demand proof by Moses or by God - as did the Jews when confronted with Moses - they demanded direct proof from the Creator - and they got it! Instead, you guys accepted the word of others in far removed third person reports as revelation - and you got slimed with both being mutually contradicted. Understand clearly what this means and who is right according to what all the world knows as right: "ONLY THE SOUL THAT SINS IT SHALL PAY - THE SON SHALL NOT PAY FOR THE FATHER NOR THE MOTHER FOR THE DAUGHTER." This is wrong: "ONLY THRUGH ME COMES SALVATION" "NO GOD WITHOUT MOHAMMED AS HIS PROPHET" Both say the same thing - both can't be right. Rocket science. Had a Christian or Muslim been a Jew in Judea 2000 years ago, there would not be a remotest chance of accepting what is said in the Gospels or Quran. The stiff necks never did and they have been proven correct. How dare they! Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Did Jesus:
Observe the first two commandments from Sinai? Agree a Trinity as one and divine man? Observe the Sabbath? Observe the Passover service - was it recited in Aramaic or Hebrew? Would he even respond to a latin name? Did he confront Rome's heresy decree - how? Why would he attack rowdy money changers performing a God given commandment for 2000 years - but be silent on Roman and Greek concubines and image worship in Jerusalem? OK, he never said anything of himself - we have no writings of Jesus - by Jesus. We do of all other prophets like Moses, David, Solomon, Iasiah, Micah, etc, etc. They have their full names as their authorships [as opposed just 'Mathew']; and we have scientific relics affirming a host of the Hebrew prophets as real historical figures. In contrast, none of the alledged apostles ever met Jesus and none can be proven as real historical figures - not a oner. They are the ones speaking in the name of Jesus, and the entire NT was compiled by Paul - who never met Jesus either and who was a bounty hunter for Rome, who was expelled from Jerusalem for his views - he stormed out in an anxst with a vengence - and the Gospels resulted. So Eurpe accepted the words of those who also wrote the most vile descriptions of Jews and their beliefs, fulfilling away what they also say is sacred stuff. It all boggles the mind - and it became the biggest belief in the world. This applies: THEREFORE YOU SHALL NOT FOLLOW A CORRUPTED MAJORITY. Someone is telling fibs.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
You may just be right. I am certain Christianity and Islam will be the best when they resolve all the contradictions between them and cease quesioning magestic laws - the former is incumbent and the latter a loosing battle. The law sector has been cornered by the people of the book, especially:
YOU SHALL NOT ADD OR SUBTRACT ANYTHING FROM THIS BOOK OF LAWS.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Its very clear. As in those spot the odd one out exams. Something does not fit in the picture.
quote: If you believe that Jews killed your lord [sic] and this has no inescapable shakles to Jews, than we must agree to disagree.
quote: A lie by omission is still a lie. The God of Israel anticipated your dementia and also gave you 100% factual, historical, geographical and legal proof for your consideration. You should better explain why a 3-state in the same land is called a 2-state. That is BS math.
quote: Your views of history does not connect with this planet. The term "RETURN" applies here with Jews and Israel. Deal with it.
quote: Atheists are still subject to history and the laws of this planet. Maybe you prefer the Pretend Palestinians as your truth - but any reasonable atheist knows this name was applied on the Jewish homeland of Judea - not any Islamic land. The fundamental things apply.
quote: Using the term 'belief' says athesm is just another theological premise with a deity they worship called NATURE. You guys are even more fundamentalst than the Taliban today.
quote: Of course you are 100% incorrect. Try telling a judge a man must be convicted of murder because his kin commited a crime. Breaking news: this is what Jews are being told by Christianity and Islam. All humans, including atheists, intrinsically know the Hebrew law is right here. It seems you are in auto reject mode in a debating forum.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Zoom out again and you will see the enormous falsehoods directed at the Jews by European Christianity and Islam. I'm not atheistic but also not religious, so my pursuit is simply for the truth, no matter where it points. I found the greatest distruths emanating from Europe and Muslims: there are billions of humans inculcated with the vilest falsehoods today: Moses was a Muslim, the Jewish temple is a zionist myth, Jews are not Jews, Jews are guilty of occupying their motherland, they murder lords and prophets, control banks and the media, drink children's blood, they are apartheiders and genociders, cause AIDS & Tsunamies, etc, etc. Wow - such powers beats even Superman and Spiderman. So let's put the term BS in some perspective here and where it comes from. I find the Hebrew writings the most credible and honest among the three religions - by a margin which is varied in kind and degree.
quote: I already responded to this. Two are attacking Judaism, each claiming ownership while also obsessed in negating the Hebrew bible, its only relevence being if it can be connected to the Gospels - as if! What is more grotesque than accusing someone of killing their lord - and what is the proof of any Jew being killed by Jews - we need two credible witnesses else the charge gets reversed - that's Hebrew and International law? Turn left and you have Muslims charging Jews killed the prohet Jesus - because they cannot accept divine man, but they still have no proof Jews killed or conspired such a thing. To think that Jews in Judea could impress Rome, is like Jews impressing the Nazis in W.W.II. Both charges are obscene and billions of humans cherish these lies as sacred. There are 55 Jewish prophets and they are all cherished and revered - why would they kill a Messiah when death is at the door? Your not an honest atheist.
quote: You will fail this test.
quote: It makes perfect credible sense. Take out Judas and Isaac from the Gospels and quran and what have you got - both fall down? The Hebrew bible is a book of laws - there are no laws in the Gospels or Quran.
quote: Whoah there! The difference in Europeans invading California and the Jews in Israel is this: "RETURN". Europeans did not "RETURN" to California. My history lessons say the Jews have never occupied/stolen another peoples' land in all their 4000 year history - despite being exiled throughout the nations. In fact occupying even a cubit of another peoples' land is firbidden in the Hebrew bible - you could not beg of Jews to occupy Califoria! I know there are many honest Christians around who know I am giving you a truthful account. Your 'God gave you this land' is used with wrong pespectives, it appears intentionally: who asked Muslims to dump a Mosque in Jerusalem and in India - they at all times knew these were not their lands?.Christians remain silent of this most unGodly violation of another peoples rights because they erected a church here first [FK the Jews!] - and Islam destroyed the church and dumped a huge mosque there. I don't hear you fussed by it - even that they did this claiming their lord and allah said so? So you point to some things which are clearly false, while omitting all truthful and impacting factors. Why is that - as an atheist you have to at least be honest about your views? Most atheists I found are even more honest than religionists.
quote: There we go again. Jews must not have their homeland where they were created and incepted! FYI - Jews predate both Islam and Arabs in Arabia, as do the Copts and the Kurds. The Islamic regimes are new - most never existed 100 years ago, including Saudi Arabia, Iraq, all the Gulf states, Jordan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc, etc - these states have fictional borders based on oil deposits. Jews have documented proof of their land backed by scientficaly verifiable relics and ancient writings from a host of nations. The Middle-east is not Islamic!
quote: You are trying to be provocative to cause a redicule of manifest truths and facts of history. Better you admit whether Jews have historical, legal and factually rights - you don't believe in God, remember?
quote: Is Hebron the birthplace of Judaism? Who established and built Jerusalem? Why did the UN recognise the 'HISTORICAL CONNECTIONS OF THE JEWS WITH PALESTINE'? Was there a sovereign country called Israel 3000 years ago? Was Israel legally established via the UN and all nations voting in the Motion?
quote: I doubt it. You would be burnt at the stake. Europeans never had any choice about becoming Christians. Read up on the church rule the first 1000 years of Christianity. Read up what was done to the natives of invaded lands who refused to become Christian or Muslim? You wouldn't stand a chance as an athiest with Islam either.
quote: Laws do govern thisnplanet, and not all laws are globally accepted. But the Hebrew laws are so; those who do not accept it are outside the law. I won't play with words.
quote: Muslim Palestinians is a hoax. Please produce one before Arafat emerged? A Muslim Palestinian national anthem, a flag, a coin, an independence day - anything at all? Those who call Muslims as Palestinians are also supporting genocide of the Jews. At least the Nazis were honest about it.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: With regard an ancient writing being evidenced via scientifically accepted criteria and volume of works, I know of no other ancient writings as the Hebrew: over 70% has been proven. Stop being in auto defense; at least consider before you post.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: It is their land, so why not - the legality is not questionable, and the Brits and Polish should know better, considering their crimes against the Jews. The arguement being put is not even that, but that the Jews never owned this land, that Muslims are Palestinians, a 3-state is a 2-state, the Jewish temple is a Zionist myth, etc, etc. Answer those liers if you are interested in discussing this issue. If Europe and nIslam perpetrated grave crimes against others - that is hardly a reason to continue fostering them.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I am not saying what you are, which amounts to zero, equating it with any and everything. The Hebrew bible marks the first recording of a host of factors and is unique: 1. The universe is finite. 2. The first listing of life form groups [species] 3. The intoruction of the DAY & WEEK. 4. The oldest active calendar [5770] 5. The first recording of a host of historical items [Mount Ararat, the Tigris, Goshen, Mount Nebo], and ancient nations [Midianites, Moabites, Philistines]; the first kings [Nimrod, Ramseys], the first alphabetical book, the first cencus, the only source for the history of Abraham and Israel. One can go on. The Hebrew bible is the world's most known and accepted document. Yes, over 70% has been scientifically proven, including a 3,500 year Egyptian stelle which mentions Israel, a 3,200 year king David, 3000 year Hebrew writings, etc. This is unseen anywhere else.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Strange display of rightiousness - let's kill you off because others have been killed! Let's get you out from the land you were legally returned to - because! When the Jews were displaced from their land - they were genocided and holocausted, and their return barred. Now they are pursued because they returned. Rocket science what you mean. This guy knows what you mean:
Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3698 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I responded to this adequately. Over 70% of the Biblical figures have been identified, and except for a few miracle FX, almost everything which is historically portrayed has been backed by archeology. Your anxst of the 70 figure is not credible.
quote: It is when backed with hard proof!
quote: We don't have copies of the Septuagint to its contemporary date [no thanks to Europe!], but we have cross-nation proof this was done in 300 BCE by the Greeks. The dead sea scrolls is dated as upto 250 BCE, but this not mean the bible was created on this date. I would say it was created as per the writings by Moses 3,500 years ago: we have an Egyptian stelle dated 3,500 which affirms parts of the biblical story. Writings was a very expensive and time consuming work in those times, but we know Hebrew writings existed becase we now have proof of King David [The Tel Dan find], and he wrote the psalms 3000 years ago. The original would have been destroyed in the Babylon destruction.
quote: Genesis opening verse; first 3 words: IN THE BEGINNING. The entire verse is open to no other reading than the heavens and the earth [universe] had a beginning. This is my reference.
quote: Its only the most known writings on earth: Ch1/V9-31. The seperation is by terrain and habitat - the most fundamental ones.
quote: These are the first recording of day and week: And there was evening and there was morning, one day.Duet 16/9 Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee; from the time the sickle is first put to the standing corn shalt thou begin to number seven weeks. quote: It begins after the 6 creation days. The first Saturday occured 5750 years ago, and all events since then are diarised, as seen in any Hebrew newspaper. This is the oldest active calendar and the most accurate one.
quote: You are abusing this previlige! Pls prove your names second alphabet?
quote: Look for it!
quote: Why!? Its a fact.
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