Jesus The false prophet

Neither the parable of the wheat and the tares or the parable of the King judging between the sheep and the goats refer to the last judgment.Both are concerning judgment BEFORE the 1,000 millennial kingdom.The last judgment is the judgment of the great white throne AFTER the 1,000 millennial kingdom.You see, Christ carries out more than one judgment. And in this case we are seeing His act of judging before and after the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years.Matthew 25 concerns a judgment of nations living on the earth (not dead) at the time of His establishing His messianic kingdom in the holy land.The judgment which we may call "the last judgment" is not here in Matthew 25 before the millennium. The last judgment is that judgement of all the dead before the great white throne in Revelation 20.That is the judgment after the 1,000 years have concluded.The separation of the tares from the wheat is also a separation accomplished BEFORE the millennial kingdom. It too is not refering to the so-called "last judgment" of the great white throne in Revelation 20.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Let me assume we are talking about the parable of the wheat and the tares found in Matthew 13:24-30. The Lord interprets most of it for us in verses 36-43.WHEN ? - " ... and the harvest is the consummation of the age; and the reapers are angels" (v.39) According to Christ's explanation, the harvest, when wheat and tares are seperated, is "the consummation of the age".
The age must be the church age. The age must be the age immediately following the preaching of the gospel throughout the earth.Then at the consummation of the church age, when the true disciples of Christ and the false disciples of Christ have been planted together and grown up together in the "field" of the world (v.38), is when the church age comes to a close.The church age comes to a close with the great tribulation and the second coming of Christ. The age following the church age is the age of the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens. In Revelation we are told that that age following the church age is for 1,000 years:We are told once - "And I he laid hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, and bound him for a thousand years. (Rev. 20:2)Then we are told a second time - "And cast him [Satan] into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not deceive the nations any longer until the thousand years were completed ..." (v.3)Then we are told a third time - \[b\]"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them ... the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus ... and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (v. 4)Then we are told a fourth time - "The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." (v.5) Then we are told a fifth time - "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection ... they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reibn with Him for a thousand years." (v.6) Finally we are told a sixth time - "And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison." (v.7)So SIX times the Bible tells us that following the second coming of Christ at the end of the church age, there is the millennial kingdom on the earth for a thousand years.Therefore the consummation of the age in the parable of Matthew 13:24-30 is the end of the church age. It is not the end of the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.The last judgment at the end of the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years in found in Revelation 20:11-15.

Concerning "the consummation of the age" being the end of the church age you write: If you do not have an anti Christian skeptical agenda, I think it should be obvious that the consummation of the age there in Matt. 13:39 has to be to conclusion of the church age.The harvest must be the harvest of the "plants" which were sown. The plants which were sown are the sons of the kingdom (v.38). The sons of the kingdom can only be the faithful followers and believes in Jesus Christ. In other words, those who respond positively to the Gospel of Christ preached throughout the whole book of Matthew.Since the kingdom is a matter of GROWTH and DEVELOPMENT, the climax or "harvest" at the consummation of the age must be the final stage of this growth of spiritual life within the receivers of the Gospel of the kingdom.At that time the age of the church turns to the age of the manifestation of the kingdom in ruling power over the earth. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" (Matt. 5:5Ie. Meekness in the face of the world's opposition during the long church age, will result in reward of possessing the earth at the second coming of Christ. Therefore this second coming at one time CLOSES the age of the church and OPENS the age of the reigning and ruling over the earth.Without the excuse of hunting for multiple meanings of "age" it should be obvious that Matt. 13:39 is about the conclusion of this church age and the initiation of the time for the faithful overcoming believers, to " inherit the earth. " Like many skeptics, you're just mad that there is an overall consistency to the revelation of the Bible. You'd like to divide and conquer. You'd like to "kill the beast" of revelation by cutting it to pieces and far separating your pieces one from another.Have you not read that God told Israelites that He would supply His truth to them here a little and there a little ? "Therefore Jehovah's word to them will be: Rule upon rule, rule upon rule; Line upon line, line upon line; Here a little, there a little; That they may go and stumble backward." (Isa. 28:13)You are stumbling because here a little in Matthew we are told of the kingdom. And yet there a little in Revelation we are given more details about the same kingdom.You are stumbled backwards because we have a few lines here in Matthew and a few lines in Revelation - "line upon line, line upon line." Since it is all not laid out for you in one place you leap at the excuse to disbelieve. You're falling into a trap to weed out the rebellious. The teaching says "The Son of Man will send His angels and COLLECT OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness." (v.41) The teaching reveals the kingdom of the heavens in a stage of being present and needing to be rid of "stumbling blocks". This is the need for the church age to come to a point where the genuine overcoming saints of Christ have the imposters seperated FROM them in the world. Then what remains is the overcoming saints and the earth over which they now enjoy a ruling inheritance. "Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (v.43)The stumbling blocks in this parable are false Christians. The tares are false Christians. The tares which the enemy sowed and which are often indistinguishable from the kingdom people are the result of the sowing of God's enemy. It is to confuse the situation for the express purpose of hindering the sons of the kingdom from maturing and growing.These tares in this parable are not general unbelievers. They have the specific function of being counterfeit disciples. They have the specific function of being a FACADE. Apparently, they are related to Jesus. But actually they are a facade, a counterfeit.The situation exists in the world throughout the church age. The disciples are forbidden to try to rid the WORLD of false Christians. The discipes are commanded not to attempt to eliminate false Christians from the world. The elimination will be carried out by the angels of God at the conclusion of the church age.The command was disobeyed by Roman Catholicism. The Roman Catholic Church recognized the problem of FALSE disciples of Christ. But they disobeyed Christ's command and tried to eliminate heretics from the world. As a result many genuine Christians were also tortured and murdered.The Lord had TOLD His servants NOT to attempt to seperate out false Christians from the world: "And the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where then did the tares come from?

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And he said to them, An enemy has done this. And the slaves said to him, Do you want us then to go an collect them? But he said, NO, LEST WHILE COLLECTING THE TARES, YOU UPROOT THE WHEAT ALONE WITH THEM.

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Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Collect first the tares and bind them into bundles to burn them up, but the what gather into my barn" (v. 27-30 my emphasis) Therefore the will of God was that real Christians should not go throughout the WORLD in the church age and attempt to gather together the false Christians. They will make mistakes. The job has to be done at the end of the church age by God's angels who will not make a mistake.When you think of the Spanish Inquisition and the like, you must recall Christ's instructions for the disciple NOT to attempt to eliminate heretics and false Christians from the world.They may exclude them from the CHURCH. But they should not try to hunt them down and eliminate them from the WORLD.It is my opinion that the word "bundles" may mean that the angels will collect the various false Christians into different catagories. At any rate they will be burned up. So we need to make sure that we are not a false follower of Jesus.Especially we should not try to put on a facade of caring for following Jesus when all along having in mind tripping up, discouraging, disheartening, and misleading the genuine followers of Christ. It is a fact that some disciples will be alive when it happens. It is not necessarily the case that Jesus said THOSE disciples as His present audience would be alive when it happens.Many people read verse 28 and substitute "second coming of Christ" in the place where the words read "the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" .But Peter was there. And Peter tells us that he was an eyewitness to the event in this way: This is a reference to the three disciples experience on the "Mount of Transfiguration". Peter does not say they were eyewitnesses of the second coming of Christ. He says they were eyewitness of "the power and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ " .He means that they witnessed the splendid power and divine manifestation of this God-Man as a preview of His eventual second coming.It is clear to Peter, from the very same letter, that he expects to expire BEFORE that second coming occurs: "And I consider it right, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by a reminder, KNOWING THAT THE PUTTING OFF OF MY TABERNACLE IS IMMINENT, even as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me." (vs. 13,14 my emphasis)What Christ had made clear to Peter, who was on that mountain to witness Christ's transfiguraion, was not that he would live until the end of the age and His second coming. Rather it was made clear to him that he was about to die. Therefore as a responsible and good apostle Peter prepared coming generations of believers for the long distance run. In Matthew 24 "this generation" refers to a moral generation and not a chronological generation.When He says "this generation shall by no means pass away until all these things happen" He meant the generation characterized by the national rejection of the Jewish Messiah. The leaders of that generation are the responsible priests, religious authorities, elders of the nation, and scribes of the law of Moses. All these will continue to adopt a NATIONAL rejection of Jesus Christ as their Messiah until the second coming of Christ.Though Jews here and there may turn to believe in Christ, on a national level, we should not expect Israel to accept Jesus as the Messiah until all the things related to the great tribulation and His second coming have come to pass. "Truly I say to you that this generation shall by no means pass away until all these things happen." So far history has borne that out. This requires longer response then I will offer now.HOWEVER, it is the case that the decision of judgment in Matthew 25:32-46 is not based on the Gospel of grace preached by the apostles in the church age. These people may not even know who Jesus Christ was at all.This special judgment is also at the commencement of the millennial kingdom. It is over those nations who are left alive after the great tribulation. They are not resurrected and judged as at the last judgment of the great white throne in Revelation 20.Ie. "And I saw the DEAD, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the DEAD were judged by the things which were written in the scrools, according to their works ... And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (See Rev. 20:13,15) This judgment is after the thousand years millennial kingdom. And it is of "the dead" according to verses 12 and 13.The judgment occuring right after the second coming of Christ when He sits on the throne of His glory in the Holy Land is of the living Gentiles gathered before Him. 1.) This event is at the end of the church age "when the Son of Man comes". This event follows the second coming of Christ.2.) The throne of His glory upon which He sits is the same throne refered to in Matthew 19:28 where He in coordination with Him the Jewish disciples will sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel: "And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you who have followed Me, in the restoration, WHEN THE SON OF MAN SITS ON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY, you also shall sit on twleve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:28 my emphasis)The twelve disciples (including the replacement for Judas Iscariot), will sit on twelve thrones and judge the nation of Israel as they will be co-kings with the Messiah in His Messianic kingdom.3.) This throne of Christ's glory is the same throne of David upon which the Messiah will sit via Luke 1:31-33: "And behold you will conceive in you womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus.

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And He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to Him the throne of David His father, and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and Hius kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33) This also points to the Messianic kingdom on the earth immediately following the second coming of Christ. The 1,000 years "Restoration" preceed the eternal age.The "Restoration" and and Messianic kingdom of 1,000 years are between the Second Coming of Christ and the eternal age AFTER the thousand years are completed.It has its function to reward those who willingly cooperated with God during the age of grace, the age of the church. It has other functions as well, ie. for God to keep His promises to David concerning a Messianic Age.4.) This throne of the Son of Man's glory is also the throne mentioned in Jeremiah 3:17. " At that time they will call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah, and all the nations will be gathered to it because the name of Jehovah is at Jerusalem; and they will no longer walk after the stubburness of their evil heart." (Jer. 3:17) 5.) The judgment of the Son of Man on the throne of His glory in the Holy Land is associated with Jerusalem, the Messianic capital of that world.But the last judgment after the millennium sees both heaven and earth removed from view and the dead suspended before the face of God in Christ: "And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose face earth and heaven fled away and no place was found for them." (Rev. 20:11) The natural world has altogether receded from the face of Christ on the great white throne in the last judgment. There is no Holy Land and no Jerusalem to speak of. Only the dead suspended in space before the holy God in judgment for their eternal destiny.So the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 in the Holy Land is different from the last judgment at the great white throne suspended in space with nothing but God and the resurrected DEAD.And -5.) The judgment of the Son of Man in the Holy Land is accociated with the valley of decision in the valley of Jehoshaphat in the Holy Land at the second coming of Christ according to the propet Joel: Matthew 25:31-46 is about God incarnate as Jesus Christ gathering the nations in the valley of Jehoshaphat. The sheep and the goats will be divided. And the Son of Man on the throne of His glory will decide which nations will be transfered into the millennial kingdom and which will go to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall by no means taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" (Matt. 16:28) Since Peter was standing there as a candidate recipient of the prophesy it behooves us to see what his interpretation of the event was. And his evaluation of the matter is seen in Second Peter 1:12-18 I can believe one of two alternatives.1.) Peter was either mistaken or twisting dishonestly the matter and you, Heretic, have the correct interpretation.2.) Peter is honest and faithful in his testimony and understanding and you, Heretic, are less of an authority on the matter.I choose to believe that latter. Nothing personal. No problem with that. The issue is what was meant in the mind of Christ by "the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" .And Matthew immediately follows the account with the transfiguration six days latter.Below I will explain why you misunderstand "the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom" to ONLY mean the second coming of Christ. But not yet. You said my post was long. But this is not a length problem.The next passage involves three disciples who WERE standing there when Jesus spoke of some not tasting death until they SEE the Son of Man coming in His kingdom - "Peter and James and John" .They had not tasted death yet. The rub is that where Jesus said "the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" you have mentally substituted "the Second Coming".You're wrong. That the divinity of Christ, concealed in the shell of His humanity, should radiate out as it will be in the coming kingdom, is a great matter.For a moment what was concealed within the shell of His humanity temporarily shown out. And this glorification Christ called the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Think of it as a preview. To God a thousand years is as one day and one day as a thousand years.The jist of your complaint is that Jesus lied, or was mistaken and that all His prophesy is all over. Now for the unbeliever this may offer comfort to continue his life as if there is no need for a Savior or salvation. But I am betting that the wiser choice is understand His additional words there in Matthew 24: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away." (Matt. 24:35)The reliability of the words of Jesus Christ are more secure than the existence of the physical universe.You believe what you wish. I am placing my trust in the fact that the trustworthiness of Christ's words is more solid than the endurance of the very physical universe. Heaven and earth may pass away but His word will not fail.Therein is my trust. Sure, more than once a generation can mean a moral generation:Sometimes "generation" was defined according to the age of a person as in Matt. 1:17 - ie. "generations" there. At another time "generation" is defined by the moral condition of the people as in: "But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like little children sitting in the marketplaces, who call to the others and say, We have played the flute to you, and you did not dance; we have sung a dirge, and you did not mourn." (Matt. 11:16,17)This is a "generation" defined by hypocritical excuse making regardless how God's prophets come with the divine message. That is a "generation" discribed by a moral condition. "But He answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet." See also verse 41, 42, and 45 - " Thus shall it be also with this EVIL GENERATION" And in the Old Testament - Proverbs 30:11-14:The very fact that Jesus immediatly follows verse 34 about "this generation" with words about heaven and earth being more likely to pass then His predictions, should clue you that He is equiping the disciples for the LONG HAUL rather than the short. When they asked Jesus at what time the kingdom would be restored to Israel in Acts chapter one, He did not teach that it was in their lifetime per se. "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has set by His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be My witnesses ..." (Acts 1:7,8a) Why didn't Jesus remind them that He had told them before their contemporaries died off the kingdom would come ?All things considered, though generation DOES indeed speak of physical life span, it does not ALWAYS do so.I think the generation in Matthew 24:34 is morally characterized as the rejecting nation of Israel led by their unbelieving leaders.And verse 35 encourages the disciples to not lose heart no matter how long time continues. Even if heaven and earth should pass away, His word will not pass away. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

My understanding is NOT that Christ will resurrect false believers to judge them with damnation.My understanding of the wheat and tares parable is that the angels will gather out of the world the living false Christians. I think the gathering of them into bundles to burn is done "first". "Collect first the tares and bind them into bundles to burn them up, but the wheat gather into my barn." (13:30b)This is just a little dense to the point that I'd like to consider it.The tares are not unworthy Christians. They are false Christians.Unworthy Christians are defeated Christians. Overcoming Christians are those who overcome and are rewarded during the millennial kingdom.Out of those defeated Christians there are different degrees of discipline. There is a wide range of things Christ will do with the defeated believers who actually possess the gift of eternal life.In the most serious cases, some will be burned temporarily. None will be punished eternally for eternal redemption is assured.Consider that the spectrum of possible remedies for defeated believers who did not come up to a level of normality, is wide according to what Christ deems each one needs.In the parable, "the righteous will will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (v.43) should refer to the overcomers. That is non-defeated Christians who matured in the age of grace. They are rewarded. They do not lose the reward.So to be rewarded in the millennial kingdom is not merely a matter of being not a false Christian. You must be, in addition to not being a nominal Christian, be one who overcomes to prevail by the grace of Christ which He has given inwardly to every true believer.Some of this may not be exactly what you were asking the "Dr" - lol. Thanks for the encouragment. I am not prepared to comment on the matter of the unbelieving or believing Jews. But I will think on what you asked.Maybe I don't know the answer. But if you have an opinion about it, please spell things out real clearly so I know what you mean.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I have always believed that at the repentance discribed in Zechariah 12, the Jews at the darkest moment of the tribulation, turn to believe in Christ. He is coming on the clouds over the holy land to rescue the remnant of Israel.From that point they look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for an only son. This is Zechariah's prophecy.This is the belief now of the nation of Israel. And in this belief the remnant of surviving Israelites go into the millennial kingdom.The Tares are are all UNBELIEVERS who pose themselves as disciples of Christ.I do not presume to know too much. But the SHEEP of Matthew 25:31-46 are not born again Christians. Neither are they judged according to belief in Christ.These are living people who will be transfered from the tribulation time to be the nations over whom the sons of God will reign in the millennial kingdom. And the Jews will be priests to these saved nations.This throws a wrench into the works of much evangelical Christianity. But according to the text, their being saved to inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world is based on how they TREATED the persecuted brothers of the Lord down to the least of them.For their kindness, they enter into the 1,000 year kingdom as SHEEP.If it helps at all, I think I understand the Jews by that time as ALL accepting Christ as the Messiah, the SHEEP of the nations Gentiles who were kind to the persecuted brothers of the Lord, down to the least of them during the reign of Antichrist, and the goats as the followers of Antichrist who considered the brothers of the Lord as probably "enemies of the state" or otherwise a social nuisance in that new age under Antichrist.Tares, I think, are the malicious FALSE believers in Christ planted by the enemy. You know that in some "churches" even the one lead "pastor" may be an atheist or unbeliever who parades himself as a disciple of Christ.His or her enfluence is devastating to true believers who come under his or her spell. This is serious deception. And Christ will apparently deal with the tares negatively.The "bundles" plural may refer to different kinds of false believers.

I mean people not regenerated, not born of Holy Spirit, not possessing the revelation that Jesus is the Son of the living God as Peter realized.I mean by "false Christians" men and women not having received justification or redemption or the new birth, who nonetheless nominally identify themselves as Christians.I would not consider a "tare" one who definitely confesses that he is not a follower of Jesus. But the unbeliever who considers himself a "real" disciple of Jesus. "The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man sowing good seed in his field. But while the men slept, HIS ENEMY came a sowed tares in the midst of the wheat and went away.

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And when the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the tares appeared also. And the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field?

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And he said to them, An enemy has done this." (Matt 13:24b-28a my emphasis)The purpose of the tares is specifically to steal nourishment from the wheat that they wheat not develop. Their planting was of the Devil. They are sometimes impossible to tell apart.But the harvest yields wheat a golden color. The tares darken and become distinctly different looking at maturity, I have read. Praise the Lord that the brotherhood is real and stands. And that because we have the same spiritual and divine life through faith in Christ primarily. And we must hold fast the living Head, the Person of Jesus.But if you do benefit from my posts I want to recommend to you the Recovery Version Bible with it extensive footnotes. Most of the time I am just studying the study notes of my Recovery Version. And they are always healthy and nourishing as well as cutting straight the word of God in convincing accurate expositions.The Holy Bible Recovery VersionNow this thread has suddenly become very active. I want to dedicate some time to Heretic's comments which he brought up to another poster. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Absolutely.Maybe we can fellowship more about that in the near future.
We are told of the deteriating degradation of the kingdom of the heavens in two of the parables of Matthew.That is the parable of the mustard seed which changed its nature and became a huge tree with the evil birds lodging in its branches (Matt. 13:31-32)That is also the parable of the woman mixing leaven with the meal until the whole became leavened (Matt. 13:33)Both of these should be regarded as negative parables teaching of the deteriation of the church in the age before the Lord's second coming.

hERICtic,Some of the problematic points you addressed to Buzsaw I would like to find the time to respond to in my way.I'll try to weed through them and select ones I think I can address.It may require some splicing and pasting. Just don't get posters mixed up.

This is some of my reply to your post to Buzsaw. But you have to be willing to READ IT ALL. .I will try not to be too long winded. The transfiguration is an event not solely experienced by Christ but ALSO by those of His believers who are rewarded for their denying their soul life.Consider: The believers will be LIKE HIM. It is not YET manifested. But it will be. In the second coming Jesus Christ will be marveled at not only from above coming from heaven. He will be marveled at IN THOSE who have believed. He is GLORIFIED not only ABOVE His saints but from WITHIN them. They will enjoy a transfiguration as a reward pending on their denial of the soul life. The INDWELLING Jesus Christ, living in the believers in the church age, is also the hope of glory. Both the moral glory and the visible splendour from within the Christian is a reward for LIVING by Christ.And living by Christ involves enjoying Him now while denying the fallen Adamic soul life of independence from God. We lose our soulish enjoyment of the sinful self in order to enjoy Christ. When He returns the reward for this is to enjoy the transfiguration and the manifestation of the divine life.Christ in the Christian is the hope of glory.Now we come to the scene on the mount of transfiguration. Jesus gave Peter and John and James a preview. The hidden divine splendour was temporarily released from within the shell of his humanity. This was the "majesty" Peter said they were eyewitnesses to.And this splendour will also be a reward to the disciples who in this age, deny themselves to enjoy the Christ living within them.You wrote: Some of those standing by were given the priviledge of witnessing the coming glory that they will share with Christ.Recall Jesus also saying "Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matt. 13:43a)This will be the saving of their SOUL. They deny the SOUL to enjoy the Lord in the church age. When He comes again that will be the time for them to enjoy the SOUL in the kingdom. And the transfiguration which Jesus showed them, will also be their reward. " ... the Lord Jesus Christ, Who will TRANSFIGURE the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory, according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself." (Phil. 3:20,21) The message of Matthew 16 is that it is far better to deny your soul life now and gain your soul in the end. It is inferior to SAVE your soul life now only to lose it in the end. The reward is concerning His believers. Eternal life is a gift.Splendour and glorification for the millennial kingdom is a REWARD. As a disciple today I do not HAVE to deny my soul if I choose not to. In that case I will still have eternal life but I may miss the REWARD of the 1,000 year kingdom.The Lord's word about reward to the disciples. They are the 'each man" in verse 27. "For the Son of Man is to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each man according to his doings." (v.27)The "each man" concerns the Christians.
The "doings" concern whether or not they have denied their soul life.The reward includes the transfiguration of the body. And six days latter Jesus allowed three disciples who were standing there in His discourse to get a preview. They SAW the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom.It was a preview of the beauty of the kingdom that He and THEY TOO will enjoy in the future. None died before the six days latter.Peter, James, and John were three disciples who on three occasions the Lord Jesus took them aside to view something important. It was usually something that the other disciples were not privy to observe:1.) The house of Jairus to witness a resurrection from the dead.
2.) The mount of transfiguration for a preview of the kingdom's beauty.
3.) The garden of Gethsemane to witness His passionate prayers. He was refering to His coming in His kingdom. That includes the Second Coming. But it also includes His preview in which Moses and Elijah conversed visibly with the transfigured Christ. I don't know if I follow you here. However, the hope of a glorious transfiguration is one of any precious other promises, which encourage the Christians to cooperate with His plan.Christ wants to saturate and permeate His followers with Himself in their souls. To do this we have to deny the self and enjoy Christ filling up our personality.If we follow on to do this our transformed souls will also enjoy a transfigured body. Christ is in us as the hope of glory.Don't miss all this enjoyment. Receive Jesus within and begin to let Him spread His Spirit into your personality. Don't be hung up on no mentioning of angels in chapter 17.
Moses and Elijah were there.Whether angels were mentioned or not, the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom has a scope which includes His Second Coming as well as His giving some of the disciples a preview. As said before "He will repay each man according to His works" refers to the disciples of Jesus. And the works are the works of denying the soul life in order to enjoy the Lord Jesus.The unbeliever cannot really deny his soul life. If he does he has NOTHING left. The believer who denies his soul life has something leftover - the indwelling life of Christ that has been mingled with his being.To deny your soul life you have to become a follower of Jesus Christ. And once you are a follower of Jesus it is not inevitable that you WILL deny your soul life. Though you cannot put off such self denial forever, you can put it off for your life in the church age.If the disciples does not put off the self denial in order to enjoy the living and available Christ, he or she will be rewarded in the coming millennial kingdom.Transfiguration of the body with the beautiful splendour of the divinity of Christ is one aspect of that reward. Eternal life is a GIFT.
Eternal redemption is a GIFT.These are not the result of work. These are not earned. These are not recompense.But in the millennial kingdom, the transfigured body and the co-rulership with Christ the King are recompense and reward for the work of COOPERATION during the age of grace.You must know the difference between GIFT and RECOMPENSE.
You are confused about the distinction.Matthew 16 concerns RECOMPENSE, REPAYMENT - "The Son of Man is to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will REPAY each man according to his doings."Six days latter "some" got a preview of this recompense. Of course Jesus denied His soul life to follow the Father all throughout His life. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Where do you read that some standing there will die ? All I read there is - "Truly I say to you, There are some of those standing here who shall by no means taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (v.27) Were Peter, James, and John among that some? Yes.
Did Peter, James, and John taste death before what Jesus showed them. No? Good enough.I don't need to ask "But who died?". They were IN a moral generation in which people reject the one sent by God for this reason and for that reason and are never satisfied, ie. John was a madman eating locusts and honey. We can't trust him. Jesus is a glutton eating feasts with tax collectors and harlots. We can't trust Him either.This excuse making generation - "damned if you do, damned if you don't" continues today.Ie. Skeptical unbelievers complain:"The New Testament teaching is TOO old. People were ignorant then" is the excuse from one side. Then from the other side "The teaching is NOT OLD ENOUGH. They probably copycated it from much older Egyptian dying and rising gods."God's message for their salvation is rejected one basis and rejected the opposite basis too. These rationals are evil excuses.The evil excuse making generation is still with us.
The evil moral "generation" continues even though that audience has died. The "timeframe" sometimes means as long as that moral condition exists at large. That's what you don't get. It refers to His coming in His kingdom. That includes what they witnessed six days latter as well as the Second Coming whenever that is to be. It sounds like the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom. It includes the preview as a foretaste to be demonstrated to some of the disciples and the full taste at the Second Coming. That is another passage. We were discussing Matthew 16. And the passage you REALLY need to help you grasp it is Second Peter 1:16,17. This proves that what appeared six days latter was truly the coming of the kingdom of the Son of Man. "Shall in no wise taste of death, till they see" - These words are spoken by the Lord because these three disciples are to see the manifestation of the kingdom glory beforehand.Now in a separate passage in Matthew 24 we have the matter of a "generation" which shall not pass away until the events of the great tribulation and the second coming of Christ are to come to pass.I said that the generation which shall not pass away should be understood as a generation characterized by moral condition. For proof of this I present the entire previous chapter 23.The seven woes of indictment (Matt. 23:13-36) help lay the ground work for characterizing the generation that will remain until the end of the age.Matthew 12 is the chapter using the phrase "this generation" the most. Three times it refers to leaders who refused to believe that Jesus was "the Son of David" (Messiah).The chonological factor is important since those alive witnessed Christ's ministry. They will receive stricter judgment at the end of the age. However, others chronologically alive are [ not included] in the condemnation of the "evil generation" - "This is the way it will also be with THIS EVIL GENERATION" (Matt. 12:41-45)Since some chonologically alive were believers in Jesus, they could not be included in the moral denunciation of "this evil generation".The generation there is characterized by a moral condition not shared by ALL who are chronologically contemporaries. "An adulterous and evil generation seeks after a sign" (Matt 16:4a) . But latter Paul wrote that \[b\]" ... indeed the Jews ask for signs, and the Greek seek wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Gentiles foolishness" (1 Cor. 1:22,23). The one sign offered by God was still a major issue. The sign seeking of unbelieving Jews still present as a moral condition.The "generation" of Matthew 21:34 is better understood as a moral generation as I have explained. The major characteristic of it is the rejection of the Messiah in Jesus by the leaders of Israel and the national refusal to accept Him as the Messiah.Luke 9:40-45 also shows "generation" in a morally perjoritive sense. "O unbelieving and perverted generation". The unbelieving disciples are sharing in that unbelieving disciples:The failure of the disciples to cast out the demon causes Jesus to link His own disciples with the "unbelieving and perverted generation". However the disciples did not remain with that generation characterized with unbelief. They became believers in Christ.Chronologically they were contemporaries with the unbelievers. But morally, spiritually they were no longer of that generation through their acceptance of Christ after His resurrection. The "unbelieving ... generation" is one that does not perceive the nature of Christ's Person and mission.The generation of Matthew 23:34-36 is moral because it chonologically spans from the murder of Abel to the murder of Zechariah, the son of Beechiah. The condemnation transcends chronological limitations. Not only does Jesus refer to future messengers He will send whom the leaders of Israel will reject. He includes the Jewish leadership in the guilt of all who before them, persecuted those sent by God.The issue therefore was not strictly chronological. The current judges epitomize the moral wickedness of rejecting God's prophets. All those involved in the rejection of those whom God sent, past, present, and future are included in "this generation" .The phrase is therefore used qualitatively sometimes rather than chronologically. Mark 8:38 - "For whoever us ashamed of Me and My words IN THIS ADULTEROUS AND SINFUL GENERATION, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when he come in the glory of His Father with the holy angels." Here Jesus did not say "generations" plural. From the time of His earthly ministry the warning applies to everyone of all chronological spans who are ashamed of Him and His words. Luke 9:26 makes the warning universal: "For whoever is ashamed of Me and of My words, of this one will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His gloy and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." .We should understand "this ... generation" to be qualitative rather than chronological. "SOME STANDING HERE WHO SHALL NOT TASTE DEATH ..."We come now to Mark 9:1 and Matthew 16:28. Here it is right to understand a chronological limitation in the words "there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. (Mark 9:1 comp Matt. 16:28)Here a chronological limit is certainly to be understood. But we have to notice what wording Jesus uses in what situation.He says "some of those standing here" not in Matthew 24:34 but in Matt. 16:28. He does not use the phrase "this generation" in Matthew 16:28 in either regard.It is puzzling why some skeptics do not notice that immediately following the prediction we read the record of the transfiguration. It is perculiar that they do not grasp the significance of the words "AND AFTER SIX DAYS ..." .Is it just coincidence that Matthew deems it important to tell us that "AND AFTER SIX DAYS" from this promise to some standing around, the transfiguration was witnessed by Peter, James, and John ?A "generation" characterized by a moral condition can also be seen in Peter's words in his message in Acts: "And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation!" (Acts 2:40) We should not construe Peter's words to mean "Be saved from all Jewish people now alive."The perverse generation was mainly characterized by the Jewish leadersship who had rejected and crucified the Messiah. All those who believed in Peter's gospel, though chronologically still present, were indeed saved from that perverse generation.This discussion should not be misunderstood to be anti-Semitic.
The only purpose is to prove that "generation" is sometimes not related to chronology but moral characteristic.For length's sake I will stop here.
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The bad typo I corrected wrongly above should read This concerns an evil generation of which the believing disciples could not be thought of as a part of for moral reasons, though they are chronologically present. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

You don't have nearly as strong a case as you imagine.
Some standing witness the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom.It is purely your imagination that if no one DIED then the event of the very next passages cannot be the fulfillment of His promise.The Apostle Peter strongly testifies that it was (Second Peter 1:16-18) QUESTION #1To what event is Peter refering to with these words? " ... We became eyewitness of that One's majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory, a voice such as this being borne to Him by the magnificient glory: This is My Beloved, in whom I delight.

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And this voice we heard being borne out of heaven while we were with Him in the holy mountain." ANSWER: Obviously the event recorded in Matthew 17:1-9QUESTION #2How does the Apostle Peter describe that experience ?ANSWER: " ... the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Pet. 1:16) WHO DIED before this event ?
Not relevant.Had Jesus said "There are some standing here who will be DEAD ..." then it might be relevant. Then we might ask - "Well who died?" But the promise was that some standing by would NOT die. As long as "SOME" standing there were alive to witness the event of Matt. 17:1-9 the promise is true.WHO were the SOME standing around to witness it before they died? "And after six days Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John ... and brought them up to a high mountain" (Matt. 17:1)I take Peter's word against yours.
I take Matthew's strong implication against your obsession with accusing the Son of God of lying.And I would add that Mark's word accumulates against you (Mark 9:2-8).And I would add that Luke's word also accumulates against you (Luke 9:28-36) though Luke counts the days differently: "Now about eight days after these sayings ...". Point out the word "return" in Matthew chapter 16.What He said they would witness is "the Son of Man coming in His kingdom" .Matthew and Peter were both of the twelve original disciples.1.) Matthew confirms strongly that the transfiguration AFTER SIX DAYS was Christ keeping His promise. Otherwise it is doubtful that the promise would be IMMEDIATELY followed by his words "AND ... AFTER SIX DAYS ...".2.) Peter also confirms it with his testimony in Second Peter3.) Mark, Luke, add their support.I will address Chapter 10 latter.
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Sounds like you work for Verizon. Anyway, hope things turn out so as to cause thanksgiving to God. My answers may be short. That is because basically I think you regard the concept of a PREVIEW of the glory of the coming age (Matt. 17:1-9) to be illegitimate. At the bottom, I think that is what we're dealing with.Ie. "No Preview Allowed!"But its not up to you. I will not at this time get into matters of NT textural criticism. But it is quite easy for a skeptic to point to a collection of other skeptics and say "Most scholars ...".I am not surprised that you can link to some skeptical article which claims things like -"Peter didn't write Peter, John didn't write John,
Matthew didn't write Matthew, Jeremiah didn't write Jeremiah,
Daniel didn't write Daniel, Isaiah didn't write Isaiah ... etc. etc."I won't debate the authorship matter at this time. Authorship debate I will not tend to at this time.
I don't doubt Peter's authorship.The workers of God worked in coordination, cooperation, harmony, and teamwork. The style of the writing may represent a co-worker of Peter polished up the writing. It is entirely possible that Peter authored his letter in conjunction with helpers.See also Paul's letter to the Romans - "I, Tertius, who write this epistle, greet you in the Lord." (Romans 16:22) WHO in the world is Tertius ?? What is he doing suddenly popping his head up in the Apostle Paul's mighty Roman Epistle ?Tertius was a helper, helping Paul to write. Ie. "Paul, a called apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother" (1 Cor. 1:1) The letter of First Corinthians could be called "the Epistle of Paul AND Sosthenes to the Corinthians".Likewise - "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God and Timothy the brother, to the church of God which is in Corinth" (2 Cor. 1:1)The letter of Second Corinthians could be rightly called "the Epistle of Paul AND Timothy to the church in Corinth".Paul and Tertius,
Paul and Sosthenes,
Paul and Timothy,
and yes, possibly Peter and some unknown Christian brother (or sister) as a co-worker helping him.No cause for alarm when some scholar says "But we KNOW Peter didn't write thus and such ..." He may well have and most certainly PREFERED that. But that is NOT relevant. As a responsible servant of the Lord his PERSONAL preference and expectation did not cloud his sense of RESPONSBILITY to equip his junior believers for the long haul in case Jesus DID NOT return within a short time.And that is why he, just like the others apostles, included words to furnish the Christian church with needed endurance for the long distance race: "Therefore I will be ready always to remind you concerning these things, ... as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by a reminder ... Knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is imminent, even as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

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Moreover I will also be dilignet that you may be able, after my exodus, to bring these things to mind at all times." ( 2 Peter 2:12-15)This is a responsible "parent" like apostle looking out not for his own whims, but for those of his junior audience. "In case Jesus DOESN'T come back before I die, like in a few months, keep these sayings always as a reminder AFTER my departure."Skeptics who harp on the apostles WANTING Jesus to come as soon as possible miss the point. They were not giddy. They were not depressed that years had passed and still no second coming. They responsibly made provision to their younger disciples that they could endure not matter HOW LONG it might take for Christ to return. And that is good advice for ALL Christians down through the centries. It is STILL good advice even if the Lord's Second Coming is still 500 years off.A follower of Jesus cannot go wrong to be alert and sober minded and praying. And such vigilance will be rewarded one day.You REALLY miss the point here my unbelieving friend. Still true today. For 2,000 years Christians simply cannot go wrong to eagerly expect Christ to return in their lifetime.You didn't notice John's word about expecting His return - "And everyman who has this hope in Him purifies himself, even as He is pure." (1 John 3:3)Our Lord Jesus is about purifying and saturating His people with His Spirit. And if some believer in 1020 AD died having lived as if Jesus was just about to return, it is no loss to him. Such a one will be richly rewarded. He cannot lose.It is your foolish unbelief leading you consider that it is a wasted life diligently living in the light of Christ imminent return. This living unto Christ is the losing the soul in order to gain the soul in the coming kingdom.If you don't think that ALL such eager lovers of Jesus will be more than richly compensated, you just do not know the heart of God. LOL! WHEN is that not good teaching for the Christian ?If you think that the Christian who fails to witness Christ's second coming after a lifetime of faithful diligence to it, will say on his death bed - "My only regret is that I wish I had not wasted time being so self controlled, prayerful, and hoping on the grace from God in me. Think of all the sin I missed! Woe-is me. I could have had SO MUCH worldly fun" You just don't know the kingdom life.No regrets I have. I enjoyed a life of the grace of Christ and witnessed His overcoming power in my life. So I expire and He still will not return for another 1000 years ? I am still a winner.Listen, When Jesus comes most people like you will think He is coming TOO SOON rather than TOO LATE. So repent now and receive Jesus to be filled up and saturated with the enjoyable grace of God.Do you want to be lamenting " I wish I had had more time to love Jesus rather than the hours I used to teach people to disbelieve the Bible." ? The point of these samples of yours are to prove that the Apostle Peter expected and even wanted the Lord Jesus to return probably in his lifetime.That is NOT a contested point. What lovers do not want and expect to be with their LOVE as soon as they can ?My point is that ALL of the writers of the New Testament put this expectation aside and fulfilled their responsibility to furnish their audience with endurance for the long distance race.Jesus did that with them. And they also did so with thier audience. Good fellowship for that last 2,000 years. And it will continue to be excellent advice should Christ delay His return for another 2,000 years.In the meantime God is saturating His people with His life and Spirit. Like tea permeating hot water, through their endurance they are being steeped in Christ.And this saturation will become VISIBLE glory one day. No regrets. Get a hint! Get a clue!The vain glory of this passing world will fade. Don't bank on it. Put your hope in the unfading eternal glory which God will work into your being through the Spirit of Jesus Christ. Amen ! There is nothing wrong with that. It is very perculiar that you would consider it vain or sad that followers of Jesus would eagerly expect His return.Apparently you totally fail to understand that while we are serving Him, we are ENJOYING Him. He is here with us in Spirit unto the consummation of the age: "And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age." (Matthew 28:20) You must understand the balance of the truth of the Gospel.
Two Gospels, Luke and Mark end with the dramatic ascension of Christ back to Heaven.But two Gospels, Matthew and John do not end with the flavor of Him going away anywhere. As far as Matthew and John are concerned, Jesus never left. He is with us disciples even unto the end of the church age.The unbeliever considers the Christian church as a poor widow whose Husband has died or departed or forsaken her. This is the foolishnesss of your own unbelief.Jesus is alive, available, knowable, enjoyable, as the Spirit Who can come into my heart. Physically He WILL return. But He is the Spirit - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)And we need and have YEARS to be saturated with this "life giving Spirit" No time spent being saturated in personality with this available Jesus Christ is vain time or wasted time.If He tarries His physical return we have more time to be saturated in our soul with His Spirit. And such permeation of the Spirit of Jesus Christ in our personalities will yield rich reward in the millennial kingdom. The glory that Christ demonstrated came from within Him. It was important that His believers witness a preview of the coming enjoyment.The coming of the Son of Man in power as a preview is what you cannot accept. I am sure of it. That is that it helps Christ's cause. Obviously Peter regarded their experience as a preview glimps of the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is uncanny that all three writers of the synoptic Gospels FOLLOW the Lord's promise with the event of the transfiguration. Matthew 17:1-8 - "And after six days Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. And He was transfigured before them ..."

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Mark 9:2-8 - "And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain apart by themselves; and he was transfigured before them ..."

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Luke 9:28-36 - "Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white." Luke adds that it was eight days "AFTER THESE SAYINGS".It is hard to miss that Luke is making a connection between the event of the transfiguration and the "SAYINGS" previously spoken by Jesus. In Luke's case that would be : "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before thay see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27)One has to be very dense indeed to not see the purpose of the Evangelist to strongly imply that the transfiguration was the keeping of the Lord's promise in the "SAYINGS" preceeding by a number of days.And that is all I can write at this time. But basically, your problem with Matthew 16,17, as well as Mark and Luke's support, is that you don't regard PREVIEW as a legitimate concept concerning the kingdom of God or Christ coming in His kingdom.Other comments possibly to follow latter.
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I do not imply the truth can always be gleaned without some in depth labor. But we who have followed the Lord love Him and His word and are more than willing to take the time to explore this "gold mine".It is God's business that He has revealed His revelation to us in different books. My point about the PREVIEW has been made sufficiently clear that I don't feel the need to repeat it right now.I understand that you don't buy it. But even without reference to Second Peter the three Evangelists - Matthew, Mark, and Luke position the Transfiguration after the Lord Jesus's prediction in such a way as to know they regarded the Transfiguration as a PREVIEW, a FORETASTE which a few disciples were honored to glimpse beforehand.This assurance, I am sure, strengthened their Gospel preaching after Christ's ascension. It may have been one of the signal experiences which strengthened Peter in his martyrdom. Mankind was not intended to be rewarded. The words "each man" in terms of reward is directed to those who are disciples of Christ.The "reward" was a promise not to mankind in general. It was a promose to those who follow the Lord Jesus. That is those who gave up the soul life for His sake that they may gain the soul as a reward in the coming millennial kingdom. " If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. Whoever wants to save his soul- life shall lose it; but whoever loses his soul-life for My sake shall find it." (Matt. 16:25) The reward is to those who wish to follow after the Lord."For what shall a man be profited if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul-life? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul-life?For the Son of Man is to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each man according to his doings." (v.27)The words "each man" here refers to those who wish to follow the Lord as His disciples. I addressed that. There is no promise that SOME would be DEAD. There was a promise the SOME would NOT die.The promise that some would not taste death is not a promise that in six days some standing there would DIE. Heretic, you are the one with the issues here. That would not survive basic discreet mathematics. Let's not get into formal rules of logic.We could draw out some kind of logic table of binary ones and zeros to stand for true and false. I'd rather not take it to that degree.Your basic beef is that the PREVIEW concept is not legitimate. Look at the way Matthew, Mark, and Luke lay out the promise followed by the Transfiguration.At best, at best you could say (excluding Peter's epistle) that Matthew, Mark, and Luke should be suspicioned of being historical revisionists.I think that is about the only case one might make. Then we have to decide whether we should trust Matthew, Mark, and Luke's opinion or Heretic's.If it came down to that I would side with Matthew, Mark, and Luke. I would not come to HERETIC in order to find out what was in the heart of Jesus Christ. Nothing personal. These kinds of oppositions came mostly after the resurrection, let alone the transfiguration. Before the transfiguration they are more welcomed. Though there was some rejection.Strong oppostion came after the resurrection. Your point does not negate the concept of a PREVIEW of the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom. There is a lot of things in Matthew 24. It depends on what you are talking about. None of this negates the concept of a PREVIEW - a "TRAILER" in the modern slang, of the coming of the Son of Man in power.Peter and James and John were priviledged to get a "trailer" of an upcoming magnificent event - Christ and His overcoming saints glorified and brought together with even Old Testament saints - Ie. Elijah and Moses being present at the Transfiguration.And actually, the Lord's CONTINUED discussion as they are coming DOWN the mountain argues against your way of thinking. "And the disciples asked Him, saying, Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first ?

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And He answered and said, Elijah indeed is coming and will restore all things; But I say to you that Elijah has already come and they did with him the things they wished. So also the Son of Man is about to suffer by them.

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Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them concerning John the Baptist." (Matt. 17:10-13) Much like you, the opposers found fault with some of the prophetic detail of Christ's first coming."Hey, the Bible said that Elijah must come first. So this One claiming to be the King of Israel cannot be the fulfillment of the prophecy."But God tests hearts. God tests hearts. Jesus says that for all intents and purposes the coming of John the Baptist was all the Elijah that they needed. And look how they treated John the Baptist.So you see, the heart of men are tested when it comes to details of prophecy. You can be "dead right" but spiritually wrong.The discussion in verses 10 through 13 should caution us that we can be distracted with mechanical details of prophecy while our hearts are no where near ready to recieve what God has for us.The faulting of Jesus for not fulfilling prophecy because Elijah did not preceed Him is an exposure of the heart of some.And the faulting of Jesus for not fulfilling prophecy of His second coming because of not perceiving the PREVIEW of it in His transfiguration is also a big exposure of the unready heart.Now you complained about jumping around in the Bible. Well it so happens that Elijah is probably one of the two witnesses which will come in the days of the great tribulation as seen in Revelation 11. So the Lord still keeps His word in detail.In the darkest days of the great tribulation - "And I will cause My two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth... And they havbe the authority to shut heaven that no rain may fall during the days of their prophecy; and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to smite the earth with every plague as often as they desire." (See Revelation 11) Sound like Moses and Elijah come back to do the typical works of power they were known for doing.God is exceedingly wise. He sent before Christ John the Baptist in the spirit and power of Elijah. And the opposers rejected him and the Christ after Him. Yet God, in the last 42 months of this age, will send His two witnesses which seem very much like Moses and Elijah at the darkest time of the reign of the Antichrist.We have faith in God. The very hairs on our head are numbered "But even the hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matt. 10:30)Think about it. If God has all the hairs on your head numbered, do you think He will be sloppy and forget the details of prophecy ?? Of course not. Do you know God ?If you can pluck out a single hair from your head, and in heaven God knows that that was maybe hair # 253,471 , do you think He will forget the words of His prophecies or neglect the details of His divine promises?Instead of trying to catch Christ in a mistake or lie, some of us choose to trust Him even through some of the arguable statements.I don't think that you have more light on the matters than Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Peter. Why no trust these men who gave their lives for the Gospel service, that Jesus previewed His glorious coming on that mountain of transfiguration SIX (or EIGHT days, depending on your counting,) after His words on the climax of His kingdom? Here Jesus must have been refering to the time of the great tribulation. Their preaching at that time was accompanied by following crowds rather than intense opposition.It doesn't matter to the FORTASTE of the radiant glory they might expect with their Master and with their own reward. To strengthen them, Jesus promised that some would not taste death until they witnessed the Son of Man coming or the kingdom of God.The customary inner circle of Peter, James, and John were honored to be eyewitnesses of the preview.And I will suspend talk for now because of duties.
We will come back to chapter 19. But it doesn't effect much of what I perceive the synoptics intended to present.You want me to trust you, HERETIC, against two of the Lord's twelve apostles plus Mark, the likely assistant to the Apostle Peter.Not going to happen. What is your goal ? Is it to prove that Jesus was a False Prophet as the OP states ?Nay. Jesus is trustworthy. You may trust Him with your eternal destiny. In chapter 10 Jesus is arming the disciples for the long run, the long haul, the great tribulation to come. There is enough encouragement there to equip the disciples through the ages.This assurance of His ultimate vindication and of their unstopable preservation and salvation is extensive. None of this causes me not to account His giving the three disciples Peter, James, and John a PREVIEW of the glories of that vindication.There is simply nothing in chapter 10 or 24 which negates Christ allowing some standing before Him to foretaste and preview His ultimate kingdom.In fact, along with the extensive words of encouragement in chapter 10 there is the doubly assuring transfiguration to strenthened three of the closest disciples.They were not permitted to tell anyone until after the resurrection (Matt. 17:9)"And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is raised from the dead." (17:9) This mighty and glorious vindication was related to Him overcoming even DEATH itself. In resurrection His humanity would be deified and He would be come the Firstborn Son of God.And in resurrection He is leading many sons into glory (Hebrews 1:14) Jesus in resurrection will lead many sons into the glorious expression of the Divine Being. This is the witnessed promised of the Transfiguration "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, in leading many sons into glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings." (Heb. 2:10)

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"Since therefore the children have shared in blood and flesh, He also Himself in like manner partook of the same, that through death He might destroy him who has the might of death, that is, the devil." (v.14) Jesus temporarily allowed the glorious expression of the Divine Being to shine through the shell of His humanity. Not only opposition will not stop Him. Even death will not stop Him. In resurrection He will lead many brothers into His eternal kingdom of the glorious expression of God united with man.A PREVIEW of both His resurrection and glorification was in order. And it was most definitely a factor which caused the early disciples to be so utterly faithful in the face of cruel opposition and martyrdom.This PREVIEW was that of the kingdom of God. It was a foretaste for them of the Coming of the Son of Man in Power.And before some tasted death, they would witness this matter.Other passages of Matthew 10 and 24 simply do no erase the Lord's right to speak this way. There is nothing that you can point out to this disciple that causes me to regard as illegitimate the PREVIEW. And all of this you are going through to prove to me that Jesus is a false prophet ?Or all of this you are going through to say the New Testament has failed prophecy ?What did the disciples SEE on the mount of transfiguration ?They may not have seen angels,
They may not have seen the sun darkened.
They may not have seen the moon turn dark.
They may not have seen many things elaborated in Matthew 24.But what DID they see? They saw the ESSENCE of the matter. They saw the Son of Man, radiant with the divine splendour. They saw His face as the sun shining. They saw the cloud of Shekinah glory reminiscient of the Old Testament pillar of fire or the cloud of glory in the temple.
They heard the voice of some divine utterance that this was the Son of God.
They saw Moses and Elijah transcend TIME itself and appear to be conversing with Jesus.
They saw the majesty, the splendour, the glorious expression, and the beauty.You cannot tell me that they did not witness a FORETASTE of the kingdom of God, a PREVIEW of the Son of Man coming in Power.Your nitpicking to find missing details from Matthew 10 or 24 is useless. They witnessed the ESSENCE of the matter. They witnessed the core and instrinsic nature of the Son of Man coming in power.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.