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Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Sir Leonard Woolley is an archeologist who made excavations there and dated the site to be around 1943 BCE. The site may have been there, but it was occupied by either Akkadians or Babylonians, Not the Chaldeans. They didn't occupy it until no earlier that the 8th century BCE.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
bluescat writes: The site may have been there, but it was occupied by either Akkadians or Babylonians, Not the Chaldeans. They didn't occupy it until no earlier that the 8th century BCE. i've looked at the hebrew text of that verse you quoted, the original & literal reading of 'in Ur of the Chaldeans' is Ur of Chaldea so it is possible that in ancient times all the land and people occupying the southern portion of Babylon, were known as the chaldeans because the region itself was called chaldea but i'll have to do some more digging to be sure, but the way the hebrew is worded makes me think that this could be the case.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
The name is A Greek name. The name chaldean did not exist until at least 8th century BCE.
Please explain the following and some evidence please that verifies this.
Sir Leonard Woolley is an archeologist who made excavations there and dated the site to be around 1943 BCE. I am not even sure what this means. The empire was very large. DO you mean he excavated key cities? There is no doubt there was continuous occupation in Mesopotamia from a very early period. Di he find something to identify a particular site as Chaldean? More info please. ABEI see you meant he excavated "Ur of the Chaldees". Yes, but the name is anachronistic. Biblical archaeologists continued to use that misnomer, but the term is anachronistic. Here is on source to show the name is a anachronistic.
quote: Edited by Theodoric, : Added more info Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
so it is possible that in ancient times all the land and people occupying the southern portion of Babylon, were known as the chaldeans because the region itself was called chaldea This term is from the 8th century BCE. The people that were the Chaldeans did not settle Ur until that time. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3487 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Even that reasoning doesn't explain away the view-from-the-future perspective the book holds. Deuteronomy 33:1 And this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the sons of Israel before his death,... "Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
Theodoric writes: Sir Leonard Woolley is an archeologist who made excavations there and dated the site to be around 1943 BCE. I am not even sure what this means. The empire was very large. DO you mean he excavated key cities? There is no doubt there was continuous occupation in Mesopotamia from a very early period. Di he find something to identify a particular site as Chaldean? bluescat originally asked how Moses could have known about the chaldeans seeing they were not a people until after the 8th century. However, as far as i'm aware, all the land and people occupying the southern portion of Babylon were known as chaldean. And the dating of the site of the city of Ur, the place where moses said Abraham came from, is dated to between the 20th and 16th centuries BCE. So why is it a problem that Moses used the name?
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
So why is it a problem that Moses used the name? because it was not known as Chaldea at that time it was either Akkadia or Babylonia depending on when the time was From ~1800 BCE it was Babylonia prior to that Akkadia. After Babylonia it was Assyria, when the Assyrians overthrew the Babylonians, then Chaldea after the Chaldians overthrew the Assyrians in the 7th century BCE, It became part of Persia when the Persian-Mede Coalition overthrew the Chaldeans. Edited by bluescat48, : sp There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
bluescat48 writes: because it was not known as Chaldea at that time it was either Akkadia or Babylonia depending on when the time was From ~1800 BCE it was Babylonia prior to that Akkadia. After Babylonia it was Assyria, when the Assyrians overthrew the Babylonians, then Chaldea after the Chaldians overthrew the Assyrians in the 7th century BCE, It became part of Persia when the Persian-Mede Coalition overthrew the Chaldeans. i thought Babylonian was synonymous with Chaldean as i said before, Moses seems to be referencing a 'land' or 'area' known as chaldea rather then a group of people of a nationality called 'chaldean' i could be wrong of course...it could be that as the scrolls were copied and the names of places and people changed, the translators made certain adjustments. It could also be that in Abrahams time, the land really was known as chaldea and it wasnt a greek name at all. Dont forget that the Greeks used the Hebrew alphabet as the basis for their own language...so if the word chaldea is believed to be Greek, it was very possibly hebrew first.
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
The Chaldeans were at times called neo-Babylobnians because their Capital was the City of Babylon. The Original Babylonians were a totally different people than the Chaldeans.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3131 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
Peg writes: Dont forget that the Greeks used the Hebrew alphabet as the basis for their own language...so if the word chaldea is believed to be Greek, it was very possibly hebrew first. Actually,the Greek alphabet was derived from the Phonecian alphabet which is itself derived from pro-Canaanite/Sumerian cuneiform alphabets dating back to before the 15th century B.C. Hebrew is also derived from the Phonecian alphabet. Thus the Greek and Hebrew both are derived from the same source and evolved independently of each other. Honestly Peg, do you do any research before spouting off nonsense on these boards. Please do your research first or else risk sounding like an idiot. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
i thought Babylonian was synonymous with Chaldean Well you are wrong.
i could be wrong of course...it could be that as the scrolls were copied and the names of places and people changed, the translators made certain adjustments. Or maybe Moses never wrote it or maybe a space alien did. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
theodoric writes: Or maybe Moses never wrote it or maybe a space alien did. Moses only wrote the originalall others that came after it were written by the scribes
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
DevilsAdvocate writes: Actually,the Greek alphabet was derived from the Phonecian alphabet if you look closely at the greek alphabet and the Hebrew, you'll see that it more closely resembles Hebrew then Phoenician. but for arguments sake, sure its phoenician...which is semitic...which is hebrew. The Greek alphabetic letters of around the 7th centuryBCE resembled the Hebrew characters of about the 8th centuryBCE then there is the pronunciation which is also very similar such as:A. al′pha and ’a′leph B. be′ta and behth D. del′ta and da′leth but you are right to say its Phoenician, so long as you take into account that Phoenician is derived from other semitic languages. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
bluescat48 writes: The Chaldeans were at times called neo-Babylobnians because their Capital was the City of Babylon. The Original Babylonians were a totally different people than the Chaldeans. i undertsand that the people themselves changed from time to time, however the land itself was always known as chaldea which is what i was saying earlier...perhaps moses was simply referncing the Chaldeans as the people from the area of chaldea. The online britanica says"Strictly speaking, the name should be applied to the land bordering the head of the Persian Gulf between the Arabian desert and the Euphrates delta" so the name is a reference to the area as opposed to a particular race of people. For example, many nations live in Australia, but all are called 'australians' not because of their race, but because they live on the land called 'australia'
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Peg writes: i undertsand that the people themselves changed from time to time, however the land itself was always known as chaldea which is what i was saying earlier...perhaps moses was simply referncing the Chaldeans as the people from the area of chaldea You seem to be missing the point of this. It was only named Chaldea after the Chaldeans occupied the area. At the time of Moses, it was called Babylonia as It was when Abraham was born.
Peg writes: so the name is a reference to the area as opposed to a particular race of people. For example, many nations live in Australia, but all are called 'australians' not because of their race, but because they live on the land called 'australia'
bluescat48 writes: The Chaldeans were at times called neo-Babylobnians because their Capital was the City of Babylon. The Original Babylonians were a totally different people than the Chaldeans. i undertsand that the people themselves changed from time to time, however the land itself was always known as chaldea which is what i was saying earlier...perhaps moses was simply referncing the Chaldeans as the people from the area of chaldea. so the name is a reference to the area as opposed to a particular race of people. For example, many nations live in Australia, but all are called 'australians' not because of their race, but because they live on the land called 'australia' Yes providing the country named before the people who are occupying it. There are many countries which are named for the people who settled it. Germany, Hungary, Turkey, Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Bulgaria are just some. Edited by bluescat48, : misplaced [qs] Edited by bluescat48, : sp There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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