Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?

Thanks for the exchange Peg.
Hope all is well with you ... What does detract from the message or the truthfulness of the accounts are the latter forgeries implemented by the scribes of the Yirusalem temple.Consider these words ascribed to Isaiah ...

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Isaiah 1:11-15

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11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? says the Father; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.

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12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, causing you to trample My courts?

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13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations - I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.

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14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am wearied of bearing them.

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15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

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In verse 13 we find that the practice of atonement sacrifices are mutually exclusive to acceptable 'solemn assemblies'.We, again and again, are informed by those within the Prophetic traditions that the Father does not require - or even appreciate - blood sacrifices.

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Yirmiyahu 7:21-27

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21 Thus saith the LORD of Hosts, the Father of Yisrael: Add your burnt-offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat your flesh.

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22 For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices;

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23 but this thing I commanded them, saying: 'Hearken unto My voice, and I will be your Father, and ye shall be My family; and walk ye in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.'

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24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in their own counsels, even in the stubbornness of their evil heart, and went backward and not forward,

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25 even since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day; and though I have sent unto you all My servants the prophets, sending them daily betimes and often,

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26 yet they hearkened not unto Me, nor inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff; they did worse than their ancestors.

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27 And thou shalt speak all these words unto them, but they will not hearken to thee; thou shalt also call unto them, but they will not answer thee.

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In Isaiah, we are asked 'who hath required this [atonement sacrifice system] at your hand'?We read further into the Prophets and the answer is plainly given ...

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Yirmiyahu 8:6-9

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6 I attended and listened, but they spoke not aright; no man repenteth him of his wickedness, saying: 'What have I done?' Every one turneth away in his course, as a horse that rusheth headlong in the battle.

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7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the swallow and the crane observe the time of their coming; but My people know not the ordinance of God.

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8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Father's ToRaH is with us'? Lo & behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

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9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken; lo, they have rejected the Father's Word; and what wisdom is in them?

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That the blood Laws were malignant scribal forgeries is established plainly through the words of the Prophets. That people are intent on seeking the advice of their own counsel - or denomination - is established as well. Finally, we are informed that, even though the Prophets are speaking on the Father's behalf, most practitioners will ignore them and attempt to nullify their message. And although these words are shown to the masses ...They will not hearken to them; hence, the variant apologetic sectarian gymanastics ...As Yirmiyahu said, 'thou shalt also call unto them, but they will not answer thee'.Yet, some will hear the Prophets and contend that the Father desires mercy - not murderous sacrifices.

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Psalm 40:6

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Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

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One LoveEdited by Bailey, : add PsalmEdited by Bailey, : metanonia

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange sista Peg.
Hope things are well for you.I understand that we are in some disagreement. Yet, there is much that we do agree upon as well ...I apologize for any harsh tones that I have entertained throughout my posts. I am incompetent at times and am working on controlling my frustrations.I beg of you and pray to the Father that you will, at the very least, carefully consider what is being presented within these various posts and in the Bible. Thank you for your honesty.I would only add that you are not disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with Isaiah, Yirmiyahu, Hoshea and Joshua. And, of course, the author of ... Psalm 40:6Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you did not require.In the same token, I am not disagreeing with you, but rather I am agreeing with the plain rendering of this Psalm, as well as, the Prophetic texts. I do as well ... I agree. Many still aren't, as the Prophets spoke 'You shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you'. Again, I agree ... to an extent. It appears these sacrificial 'laws' were put into place for the people to follow by an unauthorized law maker. This seems fairly well established by the question posed; 'Who has required {the multitude of your sacrifices/vain oblations/offering[s] of abomination} from your hand?'.lol - I contend, in the spirit of lovingkindness, that my faith is unable to suppose that the Father may have been the subject of a short term memory loss.Nor can I contend that the Father established a sacrificial blood law system that he would later condemn through the Prophets of ancient Yisrael. We appear to be in some sort of agreement here. Let us refer to Isaiah once more for clarity ...

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Isaiah 1:11-15

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11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? says the Father ..... I delight not in the blood ......

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12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, causing you to trample My courts?

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13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me ..... I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.

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15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear;

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Your hands are full of blood.

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So then, the 'multitude of' the blood law 'sacrifices', according to these passages, were 'vain oblations' and 'an offering of abomination unto' the Father.That such 'laws' - if it be acceptable to refer to these unauthorized demands as such - again, were not required or implemented by the Father is clearly established in verse 12 when the reader is asked 'When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, causing you to trample My courts?'.It is echoed by Yirmiyahu when he states ...How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Father's ToRaH is with us'? Lo & behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.'For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices'.These 'vain oblations' and 'offering[s] of abomination unto' the Father which consisted of the 'multitude of' the blood law 'sacrifices' caused those participating within such a system to 'trample' the Father's 'courts'. It caused the Father to 'hide Mine eyes from' those clinging to these ordinations when they 'spread forth {their} hands' which 'are full of blood.'Again, it is asserted by these texts within Isaiah that 'When {you/we} come to appear before {the Father}', you/we may very well be asked, 'Who hath required {the multitude of your sacrifices/vain oblations/offering[s] of abomination} at your hand?'. I have my answer - prepared by the radical school of Prophets - already.I find no treasure in exchanging their witness for the testimony of sectarian divisions of churches who still cling to these 'vain oblations' and 'offering[s] of abomination unto' the Father that consist of the 'multitude of' the ordained blood law 'sacrifices' which cause the participants within such a system to 'trample' the Father's 'courts'. I will thankfully not be convinced of anything else by a lesser authority than these Original Testament Prophets. I agree.According to Yirmiyahu, the spirit of the mosaic ordinances were apparently twisted by 'the lying pen of the scribes' which 'has made {the ToRaH} into a lie'.Written ToRaH documents were convoluted by various scribes. Perhaps this is why uncle Paul said that 'the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.' (2 Cor. 3:6).The testimony of this highly dedicated Pharisee, found in the letters attributed to uncle Paul, describes both the great love he had once promoted for the dogmas of his ancestors, as well as, his final rejection of those once cherished religious dogmas of the day - those encapsulated in books such as Leviticus - as he referred to them all as 'dung' and 'so much rubbish', this being one of the greatest turn around stories in the Church Testament.

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Philippians 3:8

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More than that, I now regard all things as liabilities compared to the far greater value of knowing the Anointed One, Joshua my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things — indeed, I regard them as dung! — that I may gain the Anointed One ...

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Psalm 40:6Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you did not require.The present or gift - that is, doron, mentioned in Matisyahu 5:23 does not appear to be the same as, or interchangeable with, the sacrifice - or thusia, that Joshua referred to in Matisyahu 12:7. I would encourage you to consider that Joshua asked those looking to him for guidance to ...

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'Go and learn what this saying means: ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice.’

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Joshua the Anointed One also asserted to his listeners that if they knew what the above statement was indeed meant to convey ...

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'[they] would not have condemned the innocent.'

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This tells us in no uncertain terms that Joshua - nor any of those within the radical school of Prophets, did not need to be ridiculed, condemned and murdered as far as the Father is concerned. So, it seems, the Prophets were murdered because the Father's 'people know not the ordinance of God' and after they are informed of them, 'no man repenteth him of his wickedness, saying: 'What have I done?' ...Instead, 'Every one turneth away in his course, as a horse that rusheth headlong in the battle' and 'they hearken{ed} not, nor incline{d} their ear, but walk{ed} in their own counsels, even in the stubbornness of their evil heart' going 'backward and not forward'.

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Yirmiyahu 8:6-7

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6 I attended and listened, but they spoke not aright; no man repenteth him of his wickedness, saying: 'What have I done?' Every one turneth away in his course, as a horse that rusheth headlong in the battle.

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7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the swallow and the crane observe the time of their coming; but My people know not the ordinance of God.

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While it should be abundantly clear that Joshua did not speak at all about 'sacrifice' in the verse you quoted, but rather 'gifts', I agree with you that the Anointed One has made it known that all of the ToRaH and the Nevi'im hang on the very two commandments you have provided in Joshua's name.In Matisyahu, Joshua showed - twice - that, had those in his day understood what the Father requires, he would not have had to undergo execution.Joshua is reiterating the message previously delivered by Hoshea. Isaiah showed that ...The Father did not ask for 'the multitude of' blood law 'sacrifices' which are 'vain oblations' and 'an offering of abomination'. I believe you are aware of the tampering performed by various scribes in an attempt to prop up the 'trinity' concept. So then, Yirmiyahu showed ...'Lo & behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has made {the Father's ToRaH} into a lie'.Again, this doctrine of the Anointed One as a Levite animal sacrifice did not orginate with the Prophets of Yisrael or with the gospels, but rather with theologians of the church, like Augustine. Joshua did not refuse aggressive defense and allow himself to be executed on a torture stake in an attempt to fulfill the priestly Levitical system, but rather to solidify the fulfillment of the ToRaH (the Father's teachings) and the Nevi'im (the Father's Prophets).

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Matisyahu 5:39

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But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well.

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It is my earnest hope and prayer that as many as are called forth into the Father's service would begin to understand, and speak up in His defense.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : pnct.Edited by Bailey, : grammar

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thank you for the exchange Peg.
I hope things go well for you ... [qs=sista Peg]As you know, the meaning of a word often determines a specific interpretation and any promiscuous variance entertained within a specific word's essence will often introduce variant interpretations. Before I could even begin engaging these specific refutations - which do not seem to address the the actual point of debate, I would first need to know if you do - or are willing and/or are able to, distinguish the difference between an offering and a sacrifice.For example, the first mention of an 'offering' - or minchah, is indeed established within Cain and Able's approach to the Father.Yet, the first mention of a 'sacrifice' - or zebach, occurs at Gen 31:54, when Yacov offers a sacrifice. The same rendering that denotes the 'offering' made by the two brothers is employed when disclosing how Yacov presented his 'sacrifice'. There is the sense that the two words are not equivocal.Nevertheless, honestly, I would rather put semantics aside and progress to the weightier matter at hand here. The text of Isaiah asks ...

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'Who has required {the multitude of your sacrifices} from your hand?'

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This passage plainly infers that the Father did not request the sacrificial system. Please provide the identity of the one that spoke to Moses.That identity may bring this debate to a certain end. If it was indeed someone who did not openly and directly identify themselves, you may say so. Rather, you agree with the author of Isaiah; yet, this is encouraging. The integration of blood law sacrifices themselves are what caused the people to transgress and nullify the Father's ToRaH, according to the author(s) of various Psalms, Isaiah, Yirmiyahu, Hoshea, Micah, Joshua the Anointed One and Paul the Pharisee, as well as, others.Everyone of the practices condemned as abominations by Isaiah in the following passage are then advocated in the sacrificial blood law books, supposedly commanded by Moses. I'll provide the contrasting scriptures and we must must keep in mind; logically, Fido cannot have both three legs and four ...They are mutually exclusive. So then, either some Prophets are confused/liars, or some scribes are confused/liars; both cannot be performing honestly ...

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Isaiah 66:3

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But he who sacrifices an ox is like one who murders a man; He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;

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He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.

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These people have certainly chosen their own ways and their souls revel in their abominations.

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Isaiah refers to these practices as 'abominations' and he, like Yirmiyahu, Hoshea, Joshua the Anointed One, as well as Paul the Pharisee and others after him, equates them with rebellion. Yet, all these practices are advocated within the ordinances, supposedly delivered to Moses by the Father - the same Father who then delivered messages through the Prophets condemning such practices.

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Exodus 29:41

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Sacrifice the other lamb at twilight with the same grain offering and its drink offering as in the morning - a pleasing aroma, an offering made to the LORD by fire.

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Leviticus 2:1

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When someone brings a grain offering to the LORD, his offering is to be of fine flour. He is to pour olive oil on it, put frankincense thereon.

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Leviticus 9:4

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... and an ox and a ram for a fellowship offering to sacrifice before the LORD, together with a grain offering mixed with oil. For today the LORD will appear to you.

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Leviticus 9:18

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He slaughtered the ox and the ram as the fellowship offering for the people. His sons handed him the blood, and he sprinkled it against the altar on all sides.

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Leviticus 22:27

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When a calf, a lamb or a goat is born, it is to remain with its mother for seven days. From the eighth day on, it will be acceptable as an offering made to the LORD by fire.

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This easily shows that without nullifying the author(s) of various Psalms, Isaiah, Yirmiyahu, Hoshea, Micah, Joshua the Anointed One and Paul the Pharisee - and others, the above cannot honestly be from the Father. The tradition of rejecting Mosaic authorship of the sacrificial blood law books is also found in other areas of the Psalms which, I strongly suspect, is why Joshua the Anointed One mentioned them specifically, along with the ToRaH and the Nevi'im.

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Pslam 40:6

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Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

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Pslam 50:9

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I shall take no young bull out of your house Nor male goats out of your folds.

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10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills.

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11 I know every bird of the mountains, And everything that moves in the field is Mine.

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12 If I were hungry I would not tell you, For the world is Mine, and all it contains.

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13 Shall I eat the flesh of bulls Or drink the blood of male goats?

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Pslam 51:16

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You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

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These passages are fairly explicit, as are the Prophetic texts. Nevertheless, at this point, it seems well worth noting what the reader finds in the Prophetic writings attributed to Micah as well. One can almost taste the sarcasm as it drips in verse 7 - lol ...

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Micah 6:6

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With what shall I come before the Father, and bow myself before God on high?

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Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?

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7 Will the Father be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of olive oil?

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Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

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8 He has told you, O mortal, what is good;

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And what does the Father require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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The implication is nothing else; yet, for those unwilling to oblige this request, metanonia is then explicitly demanded of them.This is the demand of a paradigm shift, from 'guilt sacrifices' - or bribery, to 'agape offerings' - or obedience, placed upon these ones.The Father requires nothing for salvation, but to do justice by loving one another kindly while walking humbly with the Father, exactly as Joshua said.

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Matisyahu 22:35

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One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

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36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the ToRaH?"

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37 Joshua replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

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38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

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39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

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40 All the ToRaH and the Nevi'im hang on these two commandments."

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Back to Brother Micah ...It seems he is taking a direct cue from Yirmiyahu once again, as the Prophets continually absorbed each other's wisdom from one generation to the next.

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Yirmiyahu 9:24

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"But let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Father, who exercises loving kindness, just discernment and righteousness on earth - for in these things, I delight," declares the LORD.

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That's an authentic claim for the Father's children to empahatically boast about!!Why people choose and decide not to do so more frequently is a cryin' shame, as far as the radical Prophetic tradition - as well as myself, are concerned.

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John 11:35

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Joshua wept.

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Why do you think Isaiah wrote that verse? It is in the book of Yirmiyahu, as I showed you in Lying Pens o' Scribes Vainly Forged ToRaH Documents (Message 217 of thread Christian Laws within the Bible Study forum), and was more than likely written by Yirmi's scribe, Baruch ben Neriah. Not to be rude - as I am trying to increase in patience, but the fact is plainly stated. We cannot force one to believe their bible Peg - it's their decision. As I stated in Lying Pens o' Scribes Vainly Forged ToRaH Documents (Message 217 of thread Christian Laws within the Bible Study forum) ...

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Within message 217, weary writes ...

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The difficulty seems to be in believing one's bible and trusting Prophets, as opposed to locating plain text passages attributed to their various writings.

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It is not nearly as difficult as you are thinking. While I agree that the symbolism associated to various Prophetic writings may be highly subjective, within their booklets are very plain declarations made without the use of symbolism as well. Purpledawn has already presented one for you in Message 213.

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Within chapter seven, at verse twenty two of his booklet, our brutha Yirmi declares ...

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'When I spoke to your ancestors after I brought them out of Egypt, I did not give them commands regarding burnt offerings and animal sacrifices'.

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JPS TaNaKh
For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices;

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New American Standard Bible (1995)
For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

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GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
When I brought your ancestors out of Egypt, I did not tell them anything about burnt offerings and sacrifices.

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King James Bible
For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

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American King James Version
For I spoke not to your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

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American Standard Version
For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices:

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Bible in Basic English
For I said nothing to your fathers, and gave them no orders, on the day when I took them out of Egypt, about burned offerings or offerings of beasts:

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Douay-Rheims Bible
For I spoke not to your fathers, and I commanded them not, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning the matter of burnt offerings and sacrifices.

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Darby Bible Translation
For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them concerning burnt-offerings and sacrifices, in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt;

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English Revised Version
For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

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Webster's Bible Translation
For I spoke not to your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices:

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World English Bible
For I didn't speak to your fathers, nor command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

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Young's Literal Translation
For I did not speak with your fathers, Nor did I command them in the day of My bringing them out of the land of Egypt, Concerning the matters of burnt-offering and sacrifice,

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A common apologetic dodge is to insist that 'animal sacrifices were not ordained when the people came out of Egypt, but rather later'. Thankfully, the law books specifically state that the 'law of blood sacrifice' in question was delivered at the time of the 'Laws of Moses', which Moses supposedly received on the mountain.

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Summary of Sacrificial Regulations in Leviticus 6:8-7:36

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7:37 ~ This is the law for the burnt offering, the grain offering, the sin offering, the guilt offering, the ordination offering, and the peace offering sacrifice,
7:38 ~ which the Lord commanded Moses on Mount Sinai on the day he commanded the Israelites to present their offerings to the Lord in the wilderness of Sinai.

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This Levitical decree clearly conflicts with the version of events given by the Prophet Yirmiyahu.

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Brutha Yirmi makes his condemnation of the law books explicit in the passage that follows (8:8) ...

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'How can you say, ‘We are wise, and our Father's ToRaH is with us’? Lo & behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie'.

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JPS TaNaKh
How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of HaShem is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes.

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New American Standard Bible (1995)
"How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

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GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
" 'How can you say that you are wise and that you have the LORD's teachings? The scribes have used their pens to turn these teachings into lies.

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King James Bible
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

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American King James Version
How do you say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? See, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

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American Standard Version
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely.

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Bible in Basic English
How is it that you say, We are wise and the law of the Lord is with us? But see, the false pen of the scribes has made it false.

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Douay-Rheims Bible
How do you say: We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Indeed the lying pen of the scribes hath wrought falsehood.

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Darby Bible Translation
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes hath made it falsehood.

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English Revised Version
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely.

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Webster's Bible Translation
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain he hath made it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

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World English Bible
How do you say, We are wise, and the law of Yahweh is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has worked falsely.

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Young's Literal Translation
How do ye say, We are wise, And the law of Jehovah is with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.

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According to Yirmiyahu, when the Father spoke to Yirmiyahu's ancestors after bringing them out of Egypt, they were not given commands regarding burnt offerings and animal sacrifices.It is further stated that 'the lying pen of the scribes has certainly made the ToRaH into a lie'.When Yirmiyahu's ancestors were brought out of Egypt, it was requested of them that they should ...'Obey {the Father}, and {the Father} will be {their/our} God and {they/we} will be {the Father('s)} people.

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Walk in all the ways {the Father} command(s) {them/us}, that it may go well with {them/us}'.The issue is, they didn't like that that request ...

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Yirmiyahu 7:24

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But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward.

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25 From the time your forefathers left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets.

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26 But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their forefathers.

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27 When you tell them all this, they will not listen to you; when you call to them, they will not answer.

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According to the Father, if one is clinging to and stuck in religious dogmatism, they will not be receptive to this message being reiterated - and so ...The message has been delivered Peg. The decision is up to each of us who to believe - the scribes or the Prophets. I am not a jew, a christian or a muslim.I do not seek converts, nor do I teach doctrines. I am a man who has accepted Joshua the Anointed One as the Father's witness, as well as, my Lord.I have not agreed with the Father to convince people of the Truth^TM, but rather to deliver the plain evidence as portrayed within each of our bibles.

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Matisyahu 10:11

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Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave.

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12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting.

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13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you.

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14 Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

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If I can answer anymore questions I will - don't hesitate to ask. I will tell you if I do not know, as I have no interest in making things up friend.I would ask that you read this post twice, as well as answer the question(s) I've put to you as honestly as you can.Please back your assertions with scripture if possible, as I have offered you this courtesy as well.May peace rest upon you all.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : pnct.Edited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : grammarEdited by Bailey, : grammar

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thank you for the exchange sista Peg.
I hope things are well with you ... I've provided the scripture reference to the question posed in both Message 97 and Message 106.Before engaging in discussion with you any further, I am pleading that you ...

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1 Peter 3:15

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... be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have ...

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... as you ...

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2 Timothy 2:15

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Do your best to present yourself to the Father as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

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At this moment, I refuse to accept the overwhelming sense that you may not be debating fairly.With all that said, please release to me the identity of the one that spoke to Moses.Thank you for this courtesy.One Love

Thank you for the exchange sista Peg.
Hope things are well with you ...I have intentions on addressing your claims regarding Samuel the Prophet, as well as, the Apostolic claims you have put forth in Message 113, Message 115 and Message 116. Also, to sista dawn - thank you for your words of wisdom in Message 117; you are, more oft than not, a tangible inspiration to my spirit. So then, you are unable and unwilling to distinguish the difference between an offering and a sacrifice; would it not be more honest to just say that? It seems quite encouraging that you have mentioned this as a possibility.Supposing this third option does indeed exist, surely it can be extended to the variant exegesis' established by Charles Taze Russell, wouldn't you say? If you will, please read John 6 in context sista Peg.It appears those within the Yuhdaic traditions who lost interest in Joshua's school of discipleship do not walk away because 'he told them that they would have to eat his flesh and drink his blood'. After all, the context and meaning of the saying is explained to those in attendance within v. 61, v. 62 and v. 63.So then, those who take their ball and go home do not do so until after they are told that 'there are some of {them} who do not believe ^v.64', and that, '{b}ecause of this {Joshua} told {them} that no one can come to {him} unless it has been permitted to {specific disciple's} by the Father. ^{v. 65}'. Then ...

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John 6:66

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Because of this many of his disciples went back to what lay behind and were not walking with him.

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Now, considering the text of ...

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Luke 17:33

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Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it.

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There is the sense that without a willingness to suffer the religious world’s rejection, one is not permitted to respond to Joshua (aka. trying to keep one's life).So then, in this capacity, one without a willingness to suffer the religious world’s rejection will eventually be subject to a certain judgment (aka. will lose life).

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John 6:63

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The Spirit is the one who gives life; the flesh counts for nothing!

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The words that I have spoken to you are spirit-giving and life-producing.

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It seems that to 'eat {Joshua's} flesh' and 'drink {Joshua's} blood', was to live obediently as he did, as well as, accept the fate of murder as he did.

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1 Corinthians 11:23

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For I received from the Master what I also passed on to you, that the Master Joshua on the night in which he was betrayed took bread,

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24 ~ and after he had given thanks he broke it and said, This is my body, which is for you.

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Do this in remembrance of me.

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25 ~ In the same way, he also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood.

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Do this, every time you drink it, in remembrance of me.

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26 ~ For every time you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Master’s death until he comes.

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Perhaps those who 'went back to what lay behind' were more preoccupied with sacrificial laws than with the context of Brother Joshua's message.Perhaps those moving forward to continue with Joshua's dialogue and discipleship are familiar with the table that Wisdom set, found in Proverbs ...

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Proverbs 9:1

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Wisdom has built her house;

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she has carved out its seven pillars.

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2 ~ She has killed her beasts, she has mixed her wine;

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she also has arranged her table.

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3 ~ She has sent out her female servants;

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she calls out on the highest places of the city.

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4 ~ Whoever is naive, let him turn in here,

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she says to those who lack understanding.

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5 ~ Come, eat some of my bread,

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and drink some of the wine I have mixed.

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6 ~ Abandon your foolish ways so that you may live,

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and proceed in the way of understanding.

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Elsewhere, there are seven occasions in the G^.O^.S^.P^.E^.L^.S when Joshua said 'I am ...' and then expounded upon descriptions of his personage and mission.It seems that these sayings offer insight into Joshua the Anointed One's self-understanding, as well as, offering each one of us understanding in regards to how he was an answer to our questions and needs. More to the point, none of theses sayings revolve around, or even make mention of, lambs or sacrifice.Matter of factly ...While others may have, Joshua never referred to himself as a 'lamb' or a 'sacrifice' at all within the gospels. However, he did refer to himself as a ransom.

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Matisyahu 20:25

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But Joshua called them and said, You know that the rulers of the Goyim lord it over them,

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And those in high positions use their authority over them.

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26 ~ It must not be this way among you!

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Instead whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant,

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27 ~ And whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave —

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28 ~ just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve,

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And to give his life as a ransom for many.

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Being that we are never told by Brother Joshua - or any Prophet, that he was to be a Levitical animal sacrifice, this should come as no surprise ...The Greek word for ransom (, lutron) is found here and in Mark 10:45 and refers to the payment of a price in order to purchase the freedom of a slave.There is the sense that Brother Joshua the Anointed One, as a 'ransom', paid a set price by means of his own life of obedience, even at the expense of his own murder, by not promoting the war, through malignant aggression, that was - and is still, so desired by his various contemporaries and usurpers.Will you, perhaps, as is done by most sectarian divisions of yuhdeans, trinitarians and others, attempt to equivocate offerings, ransoms and sacrifices?Are you not so concerned with what Joshua actually spoke; are you able and willing to differentiate between the definition of ransom and sacrifice? [hint - bad people execute sacrifices to a good God, but ransoms are paid by good people to evil ones.]You have made that clear.However, it has been shown to you rather plainly that the Prophet Yirmiyahu flat out disagrees with anyone who holds that position. Furthermore ...

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John 6:32

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... Joshua told them, I tell you the solemn truth, it is NOT Moses who has given you the bread from heaven,

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But my Father is giving you the true bread from heaven.

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33 ~ For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.

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The Mosaic Law, comprised and represented by murderous sacrificial rites, by its own nature, takes life out of the world, as Joshua's murder testifies. The vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem that Isaiah son of Amoz saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

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Isaiah 1:11

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"The multitude of your sacrifices - what are they to me?" says the Father.

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"I've had enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals;

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I have NO pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

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12 ~ When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts?"

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This is the word that came to Yirmiyahu from the Father ...

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Yirmiyahu 7:22

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When I brought your ancestors out of Egypt, I did NOT tell them anything about burnt offerings and sacrifices.

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23 ~ But I did tell them this, 'Obey me, and I will be your God, and you will be my people.

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Live the way I told you to live so that things will go well for you.'

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A requirement for what though sista Peg - surely not to forgive sins ...

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Pslam 40:6

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Sacrifice and oblations the Father did NOT desire, but my ears you have pierced, O' Father;

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Burnt offerings and sin offerings YOU HAVE NOT REQUIRED.

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Pslam 51:16

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The Father does NOT delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; the Father does NOT take pleasure in burnt offerings.

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Oh dear, sista Peg ...You are not disagreeing with me, but you're rather in agreement with Augustine, Mr. Russell and the likes, who disagree with the Prophets of Yisrael.Also, I never said Isaiah's testimony declared any forgery; however, you did say that. Please, for the sake of all that is good and holy, pay attention.Such a testimony belongs to Yirmiyahu, and is but an echo of Isaiah's, later echoed by the entire school of those comprising the radical Prophetic tradition ...

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Yirmiyahu 8:8

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How can you say, ‘We are wise, and our Father's ToRaH is with us?

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Lo & behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.'

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Again, Augustine and Charles Taze Russell's issues are with Brother Yirmiyahu and the entirety of the radical Prophetic tradition, not you or I sista Peg.Brother Yirmiyahu's contemporaries plotted to murder him when he exposed their vanity and forgeries, just as Brother Joshua was plotted against ...

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Yirmiyahu 18:18

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Then some people said, Come on! Let us consider how to deal with Jeremiah!

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There will still be priests to instruct us, wise men to give us advice, and prophets to declare God’s word.

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Come on! Let’s bring charges against him and get rid of him!

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Then we will not need to pay attention to anything he says.

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Matisyahu 26:4

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They planned to arrest Joshua by stealth and kill him.

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Mark 14:1

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Two days before the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the chief priests and the experts in the ToRaH were trying to find a way to arrest Joshua by stealth and kill him.

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Luke 22:2

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The chief priests and the experts in the ToRaH were trying to find some way to execute Joshua, for they were afraid of the people.

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And then, the wheels of the biggest scheme of them all are put into motion through the high priest; the beginning of the end.As well, perhaps, the beginning of the 'propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of all mankind' doctrine ...

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John 11:48

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If we allow him to go on in this way, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away our sanctuary and our nation.

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49 ~ Then one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said, You know nothing at all!

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50 ~ You do not realize that it is more to your advantage to have one man die for the people than for the whole nation to perish.

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51 ~ (Now he did not say this on his own, but because he was high priest that year, he prophesied Joshua was going to die for the nation of Yuhdea,

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52 ~ and not for the nation of Yuhdea only, but to gather together into one the children of God who are scattered in all the world.)

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53 ~ So from that day they planned together to kill him.

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While Brother Yirmiyahu and Brother Joshua were both persecuted, Joshua forgave his handlers, while Yirmiyahu demanded justice ...

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Luke 23:34

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Joshua said, Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing.

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Then they threw dice to divide his clothes.

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Yirmiyahu 18:23

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But you, Lord, know all their plots to kill me. Do not pardon their crimes!

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Do not ignore their sins as though you had erased them! Let them be brought down in defeat before you!

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Deal with them while you are still angry!

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That, my friend, is but one reason I testify to Brother Joshua's Anointing.After asking the Apostle Kefa whether he loved him - not once, but rather as many times as it took to soften Peter's pride, Joshua then asked the Apostle to go and learn what this means - 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice'. It is as if he is reiterating the message previously delivered to Hoshea's audience ...Albeit, consistently ignored. Then again, the Prophets stated their testimony would not be received and, regardless, the Father requested they declare it.The sectarian divisions of ancient Yuhdaism and modern Christianity that contend with p-sub do not contend with faith alone, but with nullification also.

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Hoshea 6:5

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Therefore, I will certainly cut you into pieces at the hands of the prophets;

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Slaying you by the words of My mouth;

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And My judgment goes forth like the light.

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6 ~ For I desire mercy, NOT sacrifice,

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and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

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7 ~ But like mankind, they have transgressed the covenant;

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There they have dealt treacherously against Me.

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Matisyahu 9:13

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Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, NOT sacrifice.'

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For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

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Matisyahu 12:7

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If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, NOT sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

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In the end of the matter, if Joshua's murder is any indication, there is the sense that the Prophets must be condemned even until the end of the age. First of all, answer this - has Master Joshua ever been symbolized as a ram in any way, shape or form at all?No, one may safely reckon, he has not; unless someone is able and willing to demonstrate otherwise.Secondly ...

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Romans 4:3

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What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed the Father, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

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Scripture texts are very clear in showing that Abraham did NOT practice ritualistic Levitical Yuhdaism in form - obey 613 ToRaH commands and additional oral doctrine commentaries or exchange funds and perform penal animal sacrifice, etc.; yet, what are we told - his faith was accredited to him as righteousness.Whether Abraham sacrificed his son or a ram is irrelevant, as it was not his sacrifice that would have served a purpose, but rather his belief.Furthermore, the radical Prophets tell us quite plainly through their various testimonies exactly - in great detail, how and why 'this' can be ...Yisrael - as an ancient theocracy, as well as, the latter 'church', dealt with - and still deal with, the Father's heart and reputation treacherously. That is not necessarily true though, sista Peg.If one believes the Prophets, they do not 'negate practically the whole bible'; however, they may begin to gather some assemblance of coherency from it ...So then, providing one believes that the sacrificial system is a forgery, then it negates practically the whole perverse business practice of theology ...Perhaps, nothing more. No, if one believes the Prophets, they do not - in any way, shape or form at all, 'negate the role of' the Anointed One.Sista Peg, chapter and verse please. This is not story time - again, Brother Joshua never referred to himself as a sacrifice, but rather a ransom.Please demonstrate otherwise - so as I may concede, within a good conscience, to the seemingly peculiar theory you are attempting to put forth.Hopefully you will understand why I would rather believe the words attributed to Brother Joshua within these ancient scripture texts over the word of confused sectarian churches who nullify huge swaths of the bible. After all, before he was murdered, Brother Joshua poured out his wisdom to teach every man and woman how sins are removed; however, Joshua never discussed any penal substitution method whatsoever. Please, demonstrate otherwise.He attested that if you forgive others the Father will forgive you (no penal substitution or blood required).

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Matisyahu 6:14

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For if you forgive others their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

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Brother Joshua displayed that he had authority to forgive sins through bold faith alone (no penal substitution or blood required).

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Luke 5:19

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When they found no way to carry him in because of the crowd,

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they went up on the roof and let him down on the stretcher through the roof tiles right in front of Joshua.

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20 ~ When Joshua saw their faith he said, Friend, your sins are forgiven.

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The Anointed One declared ...

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Luke 7:47

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Therefore I tell you, her sins, which were many, are forgiven, thus she loved much; but the one who is forgiven little loves little.

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Again, no penal substitution or blood required.Within the text of 1 John, we are told to repent, confess our sins and they will be forgiven (no penal substitution or blood required).

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1 John 1:9

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If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.

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Perhaps Brother Joshua and the author of 1 John had taken the time to read ...

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Psalms 32:5

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Then I confessed my sin; I no longer covered up my wrongdoing. I said, I will confess my rebellious acts to the Lord.

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And then you forgave my sins. (Selah)

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Can you see now, why those who promoted penal substitution atonement methods and sacrificial blood rites wanted to murder Brother Joshua ??So he would be dead, gone and out of their hair - the same reason they wanted Yirmiyahu dead and gone after he blew the whistle on their forgeries!!Remember this sista Peg - according to the G^.O^.S^.P^.E^.L^.S, it is not a tantalizing piece of Edenic Garden variety fruit that is the root of all evil ...

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1 Timothy 6:10

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For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.

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This 'propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of all mankind' did not originate with the Prophets of Yisrael, but rather with 'the lying pen of the scribes' who 'have made [ToRaH] into a lie'. Augustine and the likes then, through deceit, nullification and murder, employed ancient corrupted texts, corrupting them further.As stated by Brother Joshua, the role of the Anointed One - or 'Messiah', was to fulfill ToRaH and the Nevi'im by dividing the truth from lies; and not by the pen, which is prone to corruption, but rather through a living testimony of obedient and righteous existence.Master Joshua testifies rather plainly that, while his example will be set forth in the spirit, the lies within the written ToRaH code, found in the law books of Levitical regulations as stated by Brother Yirmiyahu, will not be abolished until they have succeeded in destroying everything.

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Matisyahu 5:17

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Do not think that I have come to abolish the ToRaH or the Nevi'im. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them.

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18 ~ I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the ToRaH until everything takes place.

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Brother Joshua's words are living, active and sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing even to the point of dividing soul from spirit, and joints from marrow; with loving kindness, just discernment and righteousness, they are able to judge the desires and thoughts of the heart.

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Matisyahu 10:34

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Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace but a sword

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35 ~ For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,

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36 ~ and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

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Such division is exactly the testimony we find in the synoptics, as well as when discerning the variant sectarian divisions of modern Levitical christianity.Such people agree on very little. So, the common scarlet thread - Brother Joshua the Anointed One must be murdered, and his blood spilled, at all costs.It should, then, not come as a surprise that Yuhdean Levites were indeed the first practitioners to request the 'blood of the lamb' be poured over them ...

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Matisyahu 27:25

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In reply all the people {angry enough with Joshua to want him dead} said,

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Let {Master Joshua the Anointed One's} blood be on us and on our children!

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Sista Peg, please understand that I do not claim any sort of special revelation above that which is available to all of us who have been called into service.Consider, most importantly, it is my conviction that Augustine, Charles Taze Russell, sista dawn, brutha jay, yourself and I - along with all of mankind, are all, by nature of being created in the Father's image, innocent in our hearts, though we have been encouraged by the environment we have been born within to become unnaturally filthy putrid liars and have been deceived on a massive scale by those who are at war with the Father; yet, everyone has choices.Test everything that is said and written, according to the words of Joshua and your God given conscience, and keep that which is good.We serve no one but the enemy by propagating obvious and tiring lies.In the name of Joshua the Anointed One, peace be with you.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : pnct.Edited by Bailey, : grammarEdited by Bailey, : added verse ...

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thank you for the exchange sista Peg.
I hope things are going well for you. If I may, I will first begin addressing your concerns regarding the book of Samuel, as well as its inspiration, by way of these two points you offer ...1) In Message 113 you state, Psalms 40:6 is a prophetic utterance which asserts that '... Burnt offering and sin offering you did not ask for'.2) Shortly after - in the same message you state, 'God takes 'MORE' delight in obedience, then in sacrifice'.In light of these two points you have established, please explain why you then assert in the same message that ...* God asked for burnt offering and sin offering.* The sacrificial ritual atonement killing of Brother Joshua is required to attain salvation?Or have I misunderstood your position? On this point, I have to ask you an honest question sista Peg; a yes or no answer will suffice for now. If I provide you with a verse from scripture texts wherein Samuel plainly states that sacrifices were not part of the original ToRaH, would you concede that 'sacrifices were never part of the mosaic law'?One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thank you for the exchange sista Peg.
I hope things are going well for you. Please sista Peg, do not put words in my mouth. I have not asserted at any point in this discussion whether the Father would 'approve of sacrifices'. I stated that such ordinations were not original to the ToRaH. That is all. If you would like my opinion on whether 'God' did 'approve of sacrifices', simply ask me.Trust me on this one point sista Peg - being a filthy sinner, I know all too well how easy it is to be completely evasive and dishonest with people.However, there is little room for an 'If, regarding whether the sacrificial blood laws found within the Levitical regulations of the law books are original. I would truly appreciate any bit of effort you could afford us within our dialogue that may curb the various word games you have been taught to play.That said, first, you have asserted that a specific statement found in one of the Psalms is a prophetic utterance which states matter of factly that, 'Sacrifice and offering {the Father} did not delight in; These ears of mine you opened up. Burnt offering and sin offering {the Father} did not ask for. ^{v. 40:6}'.According to this alleged prophetic Psalms, the Father did not, in any way, ask for burnt offerings or sin offerings.Next, it has been clearly shown to you that Brother Yirmiyahu testifies as a witness to the fact that 'When {the Father} spoke to {the Yisraelites} ancestors after {the Father} brought them out of Egypt, {the Father} did not give them commands regarding burnt offerings and sacrifices. ^{v. 7:22}'.It has also been clearly shown to you that Brother Yirmiyahu testifies as a witness to the fact that 'When {Yirmiyahu} tell{s} {his contemporary Yisraelites} all this, {the Yisraelites} will not listen to {him}; when {he} call{s} to them, they will not answer. ^{v. 7:24}'.It has, as well, been clearly shown to you that Brother Yirmiyahu testifies as a witness to the fact that '... Lo & behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes has made {the ToRaH} into a lie'. ^{v. 8:8}'.And lastly, it has been clearly shown to you that Brother Yirmiyahu testifies as a witness to the fact that certain Yisraelites he delivered this testimony to '... said, Come on! Let us consider how to deal with Yirmiyahu! There will still be priests to instruct us, wise men to give us advice, and prophets to declare God’s word. Come on! Let’s bring charges against him and get rid of him! Then we will not need to pay attention to anything he says.' ^{v. 18:18}'.So then, what authority allows you to state that the Father asked Yisraelites for burnt offerings and sin offerings or that they were ever required?Much less that a sin offering is still necessary and required, in the form of accepting the sacrificial ritual atonement killing of Brother Joshua? Why would you even say that the Father requested Brother Joshua to sacrifice himself? Joshua never testified to that notion within the gospels.Hopefully you will answer that as honestly as possible for me, but regardless, the Greek word for sacrifice is - transliterated as 'thusia'.It can be found in Strongs's Greek numbers under and is no where to be found within the verse you provided.What you and many others say ...

Main Entry: ¹sac·ri·fice

• Pronunciation: \ˈsa-krə-ˌfīs, also -fəs or -ˌfīz\
• Function: noun
• Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin sacrificium, from sacr-, sacer + facere to make more at do
• Date: 13th century

1 : an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
2 : something offered in sacrifice
3 a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else b : something given up or lost sacrifices made by parents>
4 : LOSS sacrifice>
5 : SACRIFICE HIT

This is what Brother Joshua said ...

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No webpage found at provided URL: Matisyahu 20:28

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... the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve,

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And to give his life as a ransom for many.

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Main Entry: ¹ran·som

• Pronunciation: \ˈran(t)-səm\
• Function: noun
• Etymology: Middle English ransoun, from Anglo-French ranun, from Latin redemption-, redemptio more at REDEMPTION
• Date: 13th century

1 : a consideration paid or demanded for the release of someone or something from captivity
2 : the act of ransoming

Please, if you will, go learn what this means: Brother Joshua gave himself as a ransom, not sacrifice. The first mention of an 'offering' - or minchah, is established within Cain and Able's approach to the Father.The first mention of a 'sacrifice' - or zebach, occurs at Gen 31:54, when Yacov offers a sacrifice.Have you ever heard of one passing the 'sacrifice plate' at a church service? Probably not, seeing as an offering and a sacrifice are not equivocal.According to the testimony of Cain and Able as found in the witness of the bible, they made no sacrifice. The two brother's each made an offering.It does not seem proper to assign whatever definition one so desires to a word just because it seems to suit their religious position. That seems an interesting response, coming from one who has not yet made the concession that there are gray areas within these various scripture texts.Then again, maybe it is difficult to recognize what is black and what is white for one who may not differentiate between offerings, ransoms and sacrifices.Please do not try to convince people that an apple is an orange, and that they are both, as well, bananas. It seems quite deceitful, dishonest and rude. Perhaps you are right ...After all, as I understand, the Father exercises loving kindness, just discernment and righteousness on earth and delights in those who do the same.However, withstanding burnt offerings and animal sacrifices is not equivocal to requesting them and requiring them, which is what you claim the Father did.Have I misunderstood your position once again? Po' lil buggas ... in all fairness though, the Father may have rejected faithless, wicked people whether they entertained offerings and sacrifices or otherwise.In the name of Brother Joshua the Anointed One, peace be with you.One LoveEdited by Bailey, : sp.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Thanks for the exchange.
Hope things are well ... Thank you for the interesting commentary brutha jay, yet - how, exactly, does it serve us towards loving the Father or one another, much less, contributing to the OP in any way? Not that I am accusing you of being a disciple of brother Joshua the Anointed One or being learned at all, but you remember what one of the assertions attributed to him, while spending some of his last few moments with his disciples, was ... right?

quote:

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John 13:12

​

So when Joshua had washed their feet and put his outer garment back on, he reclined at the table again and asked his disciples,

​

"Do you understand what I have done for you?"

​

13 ~ "You call me 'teacher' and 'master,' and rightly so, for that is what I am.

​

14 ~ Now that I, your master and teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet.

​

15 ~ I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.

​

16 ~ I tell you the truth - no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the One who sent him.

​

17 ~ Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

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If any of us are greater than the teacher, brother Joshua, there is a good chance that it does not appear easily recognizable to any itinerant lurkers - so, perhaps we should focus on washing each others dirty feet for now. Anyway, what sista dawn is referencing is likely the 'documentary hypothesis' and it derives from a form of source criticism such as literary analysis ¹ or literary criticism ², not to be confused with, or mistaken for, pagan/mystic dogma ³ ... If you are so inclined, be encouraged to take a moment and peruse the theological application I have have provided for you from an apologetic institution.I hope you can pay special attention to the information regarding 'Stylistic Differences' within the third portion of the blockquote ... Accepting the potential that learning about literary analysis seems to offer, towards studying the roman scripture text collection, may prove rewarding.Here's to hoping those who look towards Joshua may embrace the spirit of truth - yes, even the holy spirit, rather than the dogmas of their ancestors.For, according to the witness of 1^st John, there are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.
In the name of Brother Joshua the Anointed One, peace be with you.One Love ¹ ie. secular application

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² ie. theological application

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³ Wikipedia, 2009: Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from. The term derives from Greek "that which seems to one, opinion or belief"^[1] and that from (dokeo), "to think, to suppose, to imagine".^[2] The plural is either dogmas or dogmata , from Greek . Edited by Bailey, : sp.Edited by Bailey, : grammarEdited by Bailey, : pnct.

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I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary