|
Author
|
Topic: Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
archaeologist writes: we have the originals, God promised to prreserve His word. Where exactly is this promise? Chapter and Verse please.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 171 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 8:11 AM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
Message 172 of 386 (575258)
08-19-2010 8:33 AM
|
Reply to: Message 171 by Buzsaw
08-19-2010 8:11 AM
|
|
Except of course not one of those supports the idea that the Bible stories would not change or be lost. Look at this one you used.
quote:
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)
That one is saying that the words can be trusted and that the ruler should preserve them. Nothing in there about whether or not it was done or about any of the other stories. Then you went on to list (although you did not quote) Deuteronomy 4:1-2.
quote:
1 Hear now, O Israel, the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.
Note that is specifically talking about the Laws in Deuteronomy and we know from later stories that Jesus himself as well as Peter and Paul did subtract from them. And this thread is a great example of the next one.
quote:
God cares about every one of His words. Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)
As shown above, you guys are adding to what was actually said and changing the meanings. Finally this one.
quote:
God's words will never pass away. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)
If you take that passage to mean the Bible then it appears Jesus was wrong. So far there is not one original copy of any book found in any of the different Bibles, so the originals did pass away and we do not know what Jesus or God's words were.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 171 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 8:11 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 173 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 8:48 AM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 174 of 386 (575275)
08-19-2010 9:07 AM
|
Reply to: Message 173 by Buzsaw
08-19-2010 8:48 AM
|
|
Re: Scripture Preserved.
Again, you present nothing but unsupported assertions. Where is the evidence that shows "The manuscripts we have are old enough to the originals to be near perfect. "? Unless you have the original documents how can you tell if the ones you have are accurate? AbE: In addition, of the passages that you used above the only one that seemed to mandate that content must be kept is the passage from Deuteronomy 4:1-2. As I pointed out, Jesus, Paul, Peter and others specifically said that many of the Deuteronomy Laws were no longer valid, set aside, subtracted. Edited by jar, : provide support for my points
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 173 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 8:48 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 185 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 10:27 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
I repeat. Again, you present nothing but unsupported assertions. Where is the evidence that shows "The manuscripts we have are old enough to the originals to be near perfect. "? Unless you have the original documents how can you tell if the ones you have are accurate? In addition, of the passages that you used above the only one that seemed to mandate that content must be kept is the passage from Deuteronomy 4:1-2. As I pointed out, Jesus, Paul, Peter and others specifically said that many of the Deuteronomy Laws were no longer valid, set aside, subtracted. Further we know for a fact that many of the stories in the Bible are not factually correct and that there is not even a single Universal Canon of what goes into a Bible. If there is not one universal list of what books should be included then how can any claim of it being authoritative or truly inspired be taken seriously?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
archaeologist writes: JAR keeps repeting the same thing over an dover AFTER being told repeatedly that he CANNOT claim there are errors in the mss. because he does not have the originals. Why can't I? I can look at what we do have and point to the factual errors and contradictions. I can also point out that Jesus, Paul and Peter all said that many of the laws passed away, were in error.
archaeologist writes: we have the originals, God has preserved them people need to learn to accept the reality that false teachers will write their own versions to fit their beliefs. So you claim, yet you never produce the alleged originals. Further, the material that you guys have presented can be shown to be factually incorrect. There was no Biblical Flood. That's a fact. There is no evidence of the Biblical Exodus and lots of evidence that it never happened. The description of the conquest of Canaan as described in Joshuah is certainly wrong. The creation myth in Genesis 1 contradicts the account in Genesis 2 in both order and methods and the two gods described are totally different. In addition...
quote:
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)
That one is saying that the words can be trusted and that the ruler should preserve them. Nothing in there about whether or not it was done or about any of the other stories. Then there is Deuteronomy 4:1-2.
quote:
1 Hear now, O Israel, the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.
Note that is specifically talking about the Laws in Deuteronomy and we know from later stories that Jesus himself as well as Peter and Paul did subtract from them. And this thread is a great example of the next one.
quote:
God cares about every one of His words. Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)
As shown above, you guys are adding to what was actually said and changing the meanings. Finally this one.
quote:
God's words will never pass away. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)
If you take that passage to mean the Bible then it appears Jesus was wrong. So far there is not one original copy of any book found in any of the different Bibles, so the originals did pass away and we do not know what Jesus or God's words were.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 186 of 386 (575411)
08-19-2010 10:37 PM
|
Reply to: Message 185 by Buzsaw
08-19-2010 10:27 PM
|
|
Re: Scripture Preserved.
Buz writes: The quantity, literal compatibility and age of the manuscripts support authenticity. I'm sorry but where is the evidence? What does quantity have to do with authenticity? What does age have to do with authenticity? What does literal compatibility of copies have to do with authenticity? Even if true, how does any of that relate to the question of the topic which is "Is the bible authoritative and truly inspired?" If they are truly inspired how do you explain the factual errors such as the fact that the Biblical Flood never happened? If they are truly authoritative why is there no universally accepted Canon? Was God unable to inspire folk to know what books should be included?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 185 by Buzsaw, posted 08-19-2010 10:27 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
archaeologist writes: the Bible is 100% true and there has been no scientific or archaeological discovery thathas provenone part of it false. I'm sorry but you continue to post untruths, falsehoods, even after you have been given the evidence that parts of the Bible are false. There was no Biblical Flood. This has been provided to you several times and you never address the FACT that the Biblical Flood has been refuted. If necessary I will gladly post the point by point evidence that totally refutes the Biblical Flood myths.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 207 of 386 (575851)
08-21-2010 11:34 AM
|
Reply to: Message 206 by Coragyps
08-21-2010 11:14 AM
|
|
He also has not seen the Samaritan Orthodox Canon. It includes only the first five books as Canonical, none of the books after that are recognized as Canon.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by Coragyps, posted 08-21-2010 11:14 AM | | Coragyps has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
Do you plan on addressing the topic? "Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?"
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
Again, what is the evidence to support those assertions? And we have no idea what any book of the Bible said originally. Saying that some message is constant is irrelevant to whether or not there were changes. In reality, even the stories about Jesus seem to have changed and evolved over time.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
But none of that is evidence supporting either that the Bible is authoritative or inspired. That is the question. Do you have evidence that the Bible is authoritative or inspired?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Evidence for authority or inspiration
So you have no support for the Bible being authoritative or inspired. How do you explain the fact that there is not even one universal Canon?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Evidence for authority or inspiration
Let's assume for a moment there was "one universal Cannon (Bible)." We don't have to do that. We know for a fact that there is not "one universal Cannon (Bible)."
In order for everyone since New Testament times to be able to read this Bible, either everyone would have be able to read the Bible in this one universal Bible language, or this one universal Bible would have to be translated into the thousands of world languages. A Canon has nothing to do with language. It is only the list of which books are included. The rest of your post is irrelevant to the topic.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 233 by John 10:10, posted 08-24-2010 2:39 PM | | John 10:10 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 237 by lfen, posted 08-24-2010 9:22 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 238 of 386 (576636)
08-24-2010 9:24 PM
|
Reply to: Message 237 by lfen
08-24-2010 9:22 PM
|
|
Re: Evidence for authority or inspiration
The only common denominator is the first five books of the OT. That is the Samaritan Orthodox Canon. It limits "Scripture" to those books that had likely been canonized at the time of Jesus.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 237 by lfen, posted 08-24-2010 9:22 PM | | lfen has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
(1)
| |
| |
| |
Re: Please pick & choose to find if God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus is different?
The Bible is God's "whole counsel" on how God has chosen to reveal Himself to man, and how man can come into right relationship with Him through the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet that God was not even able to get a single list of what books should be included in his "whole counsel". Sorry but that God sure seems pretty incompetent.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 239 by John 10:10, posted 08-24-2010 11:53 PM | | John 10:10 has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2